David, I'm not trying to all up in your grill, but you are the one who described it as selfish:

If I'm misreading that, *please* explain it to me, because it sounds to me like you're saying that people who choose not to have kids in order to have their own lives *are* being selfish.

I was only addressing the people who had self-described themselves as selfish. I probably should've used quote marks to indicate that.

you just get to decide if her baggage fits in your overhead compartment, eh?

I adore this phrase.

"Mommies are people/ people with children." My mother says all the time that she wishes she waited to have us. But I never got the sense she'd trade or anything. Just to do more stuff first.

I interrupt this discussion for Jesus Pierogi!

If I were god, I'd totally manifest my image in food.

I never wanted kids. Ever. I like kids, I like spending time with kids (as is probably obvious from my geebling adoration of Princess Tickybox), and I am looking forward to being the Honorary Auntie to my friends' children. But none of my own, thanks.

(I am always amused that once people know I'm married, I hardly ever get the "So, when are you having kids?" question. Apparently looking obviously eccentric gets you a free pass on the baby question from most people.)

I'm an only child. I can't really imagine what my life would have been like with a sibling; I *liked* being an only child.

I had a bunch of quotes that I was going to respond to, and then I saw that they were all Steph-generated, so all I will say is Go Team What Teppy Said! I will print out your posts and wordlessly hand them to people when they ask about our child-having proclivities.

I was talking to my sister about an upcoming family wedding that will be adults-only, and they are considering leaving the kids for the weekend and coming up. And she said, you know, I don't even know (her husband) as a person anymore. I know him only as a father, and my partner in raising the kids. And that wigged me out too.

But I DO want a dog!

1. All weekend long (and even into last night), Christopher kept accidentally referring to MLK as, "Doctor Martin Luther the King."

BWAH! Does he know that's a "Coming To America" quote? "You lying. You never did meet no Martin Luther the King!"

I always assumed I'd have 4, because I came from a family of 4 kids, and so did both of my parents.

Heh. My sister has 2, and we were a family of 2, and all our cousins were from families of 2 as well. When she mentioned having a third child, I was like, "that is totally CRAZY talk. Who has THREE kids?" Which is funny, 'cause lots of people do. But it totally went against my perceptions of child-having reality!

admires extensive personal set of matched luggage

Heh. See, I"m fairly short on baggage, myself. I like to travel light. Which granted, can be its own issue. But. I'm talking just-got-out-of-a-marriage(to a girl), has-been-married-three-times(but only dumped the boy) kinda baggage. Which scares the crap out of me, frankly...especially teh combo of the two together.

In other words, what happens when a commitmentphobe meets a serial monogamist?

ita with migraines galore doubts her ability, but Betsy with migraines galore is still an excellent parent.

And? It's quite possible that Betsy copes well enough to allow her to give of herself in ways that I cannot. In fact, I fucking bet on it.

Parenting does *not* force all parents to grow.

See, I think it does. Not everybody grows into an Earth Mother or World's Greatest Dad, but the role requires you to do a lot more than you did before.

Is there a direct equivalence between growing, and doing a lot more? If doing a lot more involves throwing money at the sprog but no time or attention, does that count as having grown? Is that rising to the occasion of parenthood?

This "grown" thing seems to me not to be a value judgement, but you sure seem to be using it as such.

I'm not sure what you know about me that I don't that means I'd pull some magic changes out of my pocket and be able to handle a fraction of what raising an infant takes.

You can bet how you want, but I have the inside info.

People with kids DO have lives of their own. The ones who really enjoy that are the ones I love the most.

20 years ago, I walked across America with a woman who carried her 6-15 month old on her back. (Or left her with our daycare on some days) That kid now? One of the coolest people you could ever imagine. She sees no limitations, that's for sure.

In other words, what happens when a commitmentphobe meets a serial monogamist?

Oy vey. Um, they take it verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry slowly?