She's terse. I can be terse. Once in flight school, I was laconic.

Wash ,'War Stories'


Bureaucracy 1: Like Kafka, Only Funnier  

A thread to discuss naming threads, board policy, new thread suggestions, and anything else that has to do with board administration and maintenance. Guaranteed to include lively debate and polls. Natter discouraged, but not deleted.

Current Stompy Feet: ita, Jon B, DXMachina, P.M. Marcontell, Liese S., amych


bitterchick - Apr 14, 2003 5:01:32 pm PDT #9982 of 10001

Oh but see, I was going to agree with you, askye.

I have definitely felt a sense that "this person who seems to be causing trouble" is more important than the dozen or more posters who have an issue with that poster. I'm not sure why that is. But then again, I got into it over Schmoker for reasons that had nothing to do with Schmoker himself so maybe I'm missing the bigger picture here.


PaulJ - Apr 14, 2003 5:03:04 pm PDT #9983 of 10001

Reasons totally unrelated. I am aware that you're poking me, BTW. It doesn't actually hurt.

Funny. I responded in the first place because I was feeling poked by you.

The sequence of events in the last few posts, as I saw them, was:

  • Allyson (you, since you're here) post about Zoe in terms that several people here have considered inflammatory.

  • One person says that she would like you to apologize. You say that you won't.

  • Another person (micole) asks you to stop.

  • You refuse to do so, and claim that the language that you've been using in the last posts is just "honesty". You also drop as an aside that your respect for the community is waning.

That's how I saw it from where I'm standing... but then again, getting into a discussion about who is feeling poked by the other is probably useless.


PaulJ - Apr 14, 2003 5:05:59 pm PDT #9984 of 10001

Cereal:

bitterchick, I'll just say that IMO, it's really shocking that after 3+ days of discussion, the only thing that That Problematic Person has gotten has been an "unofficial" warning. I also said before that the problem here isn't the procedures, but the lack of willingness of the board as a whole to actually follow through them when there's a problematic person.


Allyson - Apr 14, 2003 5:11:45 pm PDT #9985 of 10001
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

Allyson (you, since you're here) post about Zoe in terms that several people here
have considered inflammatory.

One person says that she would like you to apologize. You say that you won't.

Another person (micole) asks you to stop.

You refuse to do so, and claim that the language that you've been using in the last posts is just "honesty". You also drop as an aside that your respect for the community is waning.

We're talking about why I did something, many moons ago, because YOU brought it up.

I didn't feel that Lyra deserved an apology, and certainly not one I didn't mean.

I don't feel as though I should have to stop discussing, simply because Micole asked me to stop.

Or, I could just tell you to stop discussing my actions that several people have already said were done, way back when, and all's over, now.

As a member of the community, it should be of interest that my respect for the community is waning, if my opinion is valued.


Katie M - Apr 14, 2003 5:12:41 pm PDT #9986 of 10001
I was charmed (albeit somewhat perplexed) by the fannish sensibility of many of the music choices -- it's like the director was trying to vid Canada. --loligo on the Olympic Opening Ceremonies

§ ita § - Apr 14, 2003 5:14:26 pm PDT #9987 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I also said before that the problem here isn't the procedures, but the lack of willingness of the board as a whole to actually follow through them when there's a problematic person.

Paul -- yes, I agree up to a point. But as a result of all the toing and froing, we have an unofficial warning, and a process in place to firm things up to remove the stumbling block I perceived between me and larger action.

It's not because I'm too nice, or because I'm afraid of conflict, exactly. It's because I don't have the cycles available to argue endlessly about my judgement calls. I want a paper trail, thanks.

You want to give me power and free rein?

t insert Galadriel spookiness

No, I don't really want it.


Theodosia - Apr 14, 2003 5:27:33 pm PDT #9988 of 10001
'we all walk this earth feeling we are frauds. The trick is to be grateful and hope the caper doesn't end any time soon"

I feel bad, because I've been one of the people who has engaged Zoe more than others, in the hopes that calm reactions and patience and plain interaction would help her settle. I see a steady decline in her coherence these past few days -- I don't know whether that is a defensive posture related to this or a separate issue ongoing in her life, but it is a bad development.

At this point, I would be one of the ten people adding my vote towards an Official Warning, if we had them at this point.

I just wanted to put my ten cents in, inasmuch as I've been something of an advocate for Zoe, that her behavior has changed beyond the point where I can tolerate it, and I'm pretty much Ironsides Theodosia.


PaulJ - Apr 14, 2003 5:46:18 pm PDT #9989 of 10001

We're talking about why I did something, many moons ago, because YOU brought it up.

Well, that's my fault probably then. When the Incident first happened, I was squicked beyond words, but didn't say anything because I had arrived late, and also to avoid disturbing the peace of the community. I guess next time I'll speak up on the moment if something bothers me, Community Peace be damned.

I don't feel as though I should have to stop discussing, simply because Micole asked me to stop.

Well then. However, I seem to remember that one of the Commandments of the Buffista Law was to avoid annoying others, and that stop doing something if people speak up against it was an encouraged habit around here. I remember many posts about the subject in this very thread from people like John, explaining the netiquette of this board to newbies. Am I hallucinating, or is it like I said?

(Not that I'm trying to give you lessons in netiquette or anything; far from me that presumption. It's just a contradiction that is leaving me slightly baffled, and I'm honestly trying to come to terms with it).

Now breathe and sigh in relief, for I'm going to bed.


Cindy - Apr 14, 2003 5:46:30 pm PDT #9990 of 10001
Nobody

Funny. I responded in the first place because I was feeling poked by you.

(NOTE: I only took Paul's statement because of what it said, not because I'm only addressing Paul)

We need to refrain from poking each other, even if we think we're just poking back at someone who poked us. If you have to call the person on poking, fine. Let's not get petty with each other.

By the way, this all is exactly why so many folks are starting to fall on the hardline with bannings, suspensions, or warnings, even for petty offenses. It's because when we don't, when we dissect the petty events ad nauseam, we start to canibalize ourselves.

Let's please cut the shit.


amyth - Apr 14, 2003 5:54:25 pm PDT #9991 of 10001
And none of us deserving the cruelty or the grace -- Leonard Cohen

While there's still time, I say Sartre, with an eye toward Tim.

(and those of you who think it's going to be a long time until Bloody Tim are beautiful, crazy, cockeyed optimists)