Cereal:

bitterchick, I'll just say that IMO, it's really shocking that after 3+ days of discussion, the only thing that That Problematic Person has gotten has been an "unofficial" warning. I also said before that the problem here isn't the procedures, but the lack of willingness of the board as a whole to actually follow through them when there's a problematic person.

Allyson (you, since you're here) post about Zoe in terms that several people here

One person says that she would like you to apologize. You say that you won't.

Another person (micole) asks you to stop.

You refuse to do so, and claim that the language that you've been using in the last posts is just "honesty". You also drop as an aside that your respect for the community is waning.

We're talking about why I did something, many moons ago, because YOU brought it up.

I didn't feel that Lyra deserved an apology, and certainly not one I didn't mean.

I don't feel as though I should have to stop discussing, simply because Micole asked me to stop.

Or, I could just tell you to stop discussing my actions that several people have already said were done, way back when, and all's over, now.

As a member of the community, it should be of interest that my respect for the community is waning, if my opinion is valued.

I also said before that the problem here isn't the procedures, but the lack of willingness of the board as a whole to actually follow through them when there's a problematic person.

Paul -- yes, I agree up to a point. But as a result of all the toing and froing, we have an unofficial warning, and a process in place to firm things up to remove the stumbling block I perceived between me and larger action.

It's not because I'm too nice, or because I'm afraid of conflict, exactly. It's because I don't have the cycles available to argue endlessly about my judgement calls. I want a paper trail, thanks.

You want to give me power and free rein?

t insert Galadriel spookiness

No, I don't really want it.

I feel bad, because I've been one of the people who has engaged Zoe more than others, in the hopes that calm reactions and patience and plain interaction would help her settle. I see a steady decline in her coherence these past few days -- I don't know whether that is a defensive posture related to this or a separate issue ongoing in her life, but it is a bad development.

At this point, I would be one of the ten people adding my vote towards an Official Warning, if we had them at this point.

I just wanted to put my ten cents in, inasmuch as I've been something of an advocate for Zoe, that her behavior has changed beyond the point where I can tolerate it, and I'm pretty much Ironsides Theodosia.

We're talking about why I did something, many moons ago, because YOU brought it up.

Well, that's my fault probably then. When the Incident first happened, I was squicked beyond words, but didn't say anything because I had arrived late, and also to avoid disturbing the peace of the community. I guess next time I'll speak up on the moment if something bothers me, Community Peace be damned.

I don't feel as though I should have to stop discussing, simply because Micole asked me to stop.

Well then. However, I seem to remember that one of the Commandments of the Buffista Law was to avoid annoying others, and that stop doing something if people speak up against it was an encouraged habit around here. I remember many posts about the subject in this very thread from people like John, explaining the netiquette of this board to newbies. Am I hallucinating, or is it like I said?

(Not that I'm trying to give you lessons in netiquette or anything; far from me that presumption. It's just a contradiction that is leaving me slightly baffled, and I'm honestly trying to come to terms with it).

Now breathe and sigh in relief, for I'm going to bed.

Funny. I responded in the first place because I was feeling poked by you.

(NOTE: I only took Paul's statement because of what it said, not because I'm only addressing Paul)

We need to refrain from poking each other, even if we think we're just poking back at someone who poked us. If you have to call the person on poking, fine. Let's not get petty with each other.

By the way, this all is exactly why so many folks are starting to fall on the hardline with bannings, suspensions, or warnings, even for petty offenses. It's because when we don't, when we dissect the petty events ad nauseam, we start to canibalize ourselves.

Let's please cut the shit.

While there's still time, I say Sartre, with an eye toward Tim.

(and those of you who think it's going to be a long time until Bloody Tim are beautiful, crazy, cockeyed optimists)

Hey, everyone? Chill.

ita:

But if msbelle and Jesse believe their points, and you come to believe yours, what's the problem? If you don't believe yours, well, it seems like an odd case of peer pressure -- do we really see that a) as having happened, and b) a sufficient risk to proactively create procedures to avoid?

I think it's the "come to believe" that's the problem. And, yes, I do believe it happened here. And I do still believe it's worth keeping complaints out of Bureaucracy to keep it from happening again -- which I don't see as "proactively creating procedures" so much as setting one rule. But I'll wait and see if msbelle's plan works before kicking up a fuss about this point again.

Also, msbelle is my hero.

OMG! really? That's honest make me real surprised, I value your opinion lots stuff.

Thanks friend.