Uh, I hope no one minds a relative (as in, my number's lower than others who are part of the mass influx of Fall/Winter 2002, but I haven't posted much) newbie dropping in to the discussion.

To be honest? I think you're blowing this issue way out of proportion. No offense, but all this talk about newbies and the problems they'll bring sounds like kids fearing the boogyman and what he'll do to them at night. Your fear is coming off as way out of proportion to the actual problems that have cropped up, in my opinion.

I haven't Nattered, but I've posted in Dude, Firefly, Bitches and the Angel thread. Has everyone come rushing to welcome me with open arms? No. But I don't expect that. I expect that, despite my close friendships with two longstanding board members (see tagline) it will take time to ingratiate myself with the established community, and I haven't had the time to devote to doing that yet. But it'll happen eventually. I know this... or at least, I'm hoping!

I can only speak for myself, but I don't think you guys are turning your noses up at newbies. You just need to get to know them first. That's not a reflection on you as a community, it's a reflection on you being a community made up of human beings.

I still believe that the double-standard is acceptable. i.e, if i call ita a low down dirty ho in conversation, vs someone who has never before posted calling ita a low down dirty ho.

I agree. Uh...not about ita being a ho, because she can kick me in the head. But about a "double standard." And it isn't a double standard, IMO -- there are levels of relationships here. And that's the way things are with different relationships.

Steph's right.

Allyson, you can call ita a low-down dirty ho and ita won't get offended and neither will anyone else who knows you and ita.

But if you (or ita) said something vicious and biting to someone, and it wasn't meant as a joke, and nobody called you on it because you were established members of the community, that would be wrong.

That's the distinction. And the problem we're having is that unless you pay close attention, the difference isn't obvious.

Has everyone come rushing to welcome me with open arms? No.

That's just cause we warned them about you before you got here.

And the problem we're having is that unless you pay close attention, the difference isn't obvious.

Really? It is to me. As in, I know who can call me a ho, and who can't. And if someone who can't, does, I'm going to say something about it. I've been trying to be more conscientious about it, but if I think it can make a difference in how I'm treated, damned skippy, I'll mention it.

There might be a distinction because I don't think I need any protection -- if someone calls me a ho and I don't say anything, no one else need say anything on my behalf.

But I know it when I see it, and I got my back.

My take on it has been that if someone's not being called on their shit it's because the person targeted (say, an INVISIBLE FUCKO) doesn't mind, or can't be arsed. I still need to develop a relationship with this fucko before I can get all caps on their ass, though.

That's just cause we warned them about you before you got here.

In backchannel.

imagining ita spinning around in circles very fast, trying to get her own back

Oh you can talk about me all you want on backchannels.

I'm all about the attention. Especially if I don't have to do any work to get it.

Really? It is to me.

Yes, but you're never afraid to speak out for yourself either.

Case in point: I don't read Bitches, don't have time. If I stop by on an ordinary day I have no idea whether I'm reading a flamewar or a friendly back-scratching session.

I'm not going to step in and say, "whoah there, folks!" because I don't really know whether this is in violation of the standards or not.

Ah, I've wandered far from my original point, which was "let's not work ourselves into a tizzy."

We're NOT being inundated with trolls. We're just as likely to have the board blow up because of disagreements between veterans as by having some newbies show up who didn't read the FAQ.

First off, I'd love to see all of us, old and new, keep this comment from Suela foremost in our minds for a while:

The best we can do is give our fellow posters the benefit of the doubt, bite our tongues when we react in anger, and try to be as civil and courteous as possible, understanding the limits of the medium we're working in.

Generally, this is pretty much how we function around here normally, without even thinking about it. But I think over the last few months it's gotten away from us a little bit, and that upsets me. The inflood of new registrations shocked a bunch of us, and it feels like we're still reacting to that in a way that isn't productive.

So, sadly, I can see where MM's coming from. I don't want to, and I still don't believe that that really describes us as a community. But I can see where it appears that way, and I wish that weren't so.

Comfort levels differ - one of the reasons that old-timers seem to get away with stuff is that when you know someone, you know how they mean things, and you don't take offense where none is intended. If you do, you say so, and generally it irons itself out. So an off-colour remark or insult goes by without comment. But if I'm new here, do I know why it's ok for someone else but not for me? Say I've been watching the board and trying to figure it out, and it looks to me like this kind of talk is ok here, so I just jump in. What happens then? For whatever reason, we're not dealing with this stuff very well right now.

FTR, on the interaction that Schmoker posted about over here, I don't think he was wrong. He made a potentially annoying post but the response from at least one poster was way outside the bounds. I was fairly behind in the thread when I came across it, but I was very sorry that there wasn't more reaction from others on that, because it was far more deserving of a scolding, IMO.

Right now, we're mostly upsetting ourselves, though - we are feeding the energy creatures, and we're getting all worked up about it besides.