Time to slay. Vampires of the world beware!

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All Ogle, No Cash -- It's Not Just Annoying, It's Un-American

Discussion of episodes currently airing in Un-American locations (anything that's aired in Australia is fair game), as well as anything else the Un-Americans feel like talking about or we feel like asking them. Please use the show discussion threads for any current-season discussion.

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moonlit - Apr 02, 2003 11:52:42 am PST #3018 of 9843
"When the world's run by fools it's the duty of intelligence to disobey." Martin Firrell

I love to see my man Gramsci's name popping up, too.

Yeah Hayden I'm into Gramsci, sort of a neo-Gramscian approach distinguished by analysing world order, power and the state in terms of hegemony, the achievement of political stability, not through the use of force, but by persuading the populace to accept the political and moral values of the ruling class.
In addition, I follow Connell’s work in relation to Australian society, which posits hegemony at three levels, the level of individual consciousness and social attitudes, the level of unconscious mental processes, and the level of the practical, material structuring of everyday life and routine interactions. Using these approaches to analyse the impact of globalisation on politics emphasises the reflexive, mutually determining relationship between material capabilities, ideas, and institutions, a la Connell’s notion that ideas and beliefs are additional sources of power to economic factors, and Gramsci’s belief that individuals possess ‘dual consciousness’. Many individual’s ideas derive from the ruling class’s control over civil society and its ability to use such institutions as the church and schools to persuade people to accept that neo-liberal capitalism is, not only, the natural order of things, but, right, proper, and desirable as well.
However, people’s conceptions and beliefs are also produced through their activities and experiences, so that, to some extent, they should be able to see through the neo-liberal rhetoric and propaganda of the capitalist system, recognising that their interests my be best served by changing it.Gramsci described it as a time of political trench warfare in which the revolutionary elements in society attempt to win over the hearts and minds of the subject classes, the masses, in other words, the public.

I'm also into Ghandi's seven social sins,

  • Politics without Principle
  • Wealth without Work
  • Commerce without Morality
  • Pleasure without Conscience
  • Education without Character
  • Science without Humanity
  • Worship without Sacrifice

(and I know that last one brings up images of Joss & Tim & Goats)

and David Hume's 18th century assertion that subjective (observed) knowledge can only describe how reality appears to us, an “apparent reality”, rather than the objective “deep reality” that describes the ultimate physical laws and substances that constitute our world, which still stands unrefuted to this day. In fact it seems to be gaining even more credibility with the latest cosmology research and physics stuff.

and Immanuel Kant who warned that a socio-economic order in which whole regions or peoples suffer serious harm and disadvantage independent of will or consent, cannot command widespread support and legitimacy.


Hayden - Apr 02, 2003 1:30:52 pm PST #3019 of 9843
aka "The artist formerly known as Corwood Industries."

Shit, I hate when you write a long message, then click to somewhere else to check facts before finishing, and click back to find the box empty.

Anyway, I was saying that my familiarity with Gramsci is more from a labor-historical perspective, in that I read some of his works & used his ideas in a paper during my final semester of grad school to illuminate why the hollowing of the CIO after Taft-Hartley was both tragic and inevitable. I'm not familiar with Connell, but I think that your approach of using these models of behavior to describe globalization sounds fascinating.

Using these approaches to analyse the impact of globalisation on politics emphasises the reflexive, mutually determining relationship between material capabilities, ideas, and institutions

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Let me see if I can suss it out.

Many individual’s ideas derive from the ruling class’s control over civil society and its ability to use such institutions as the church and schools to persuade people to accept that neo-liberal capitalism is, not only, the natural order of things, but, right, proper, and desirable as well.

This certainly appears true in the US, Britain, and Australia (the rightward democracies). I'm not so sure how this plays out in Europe, South America, or Africa, though, where the individuals appear to have a difficult time accepting the rightness of free-market capitalism, especially when imposed by outside forces (aka the IMF & WB) aligned with the internal ruling class. In the US, neo-lib capitalism is conflated with liberal values of governance, making it an easier pill for the middle & working classes to swallow.

However, people’s conceptions and beliefs are also produced through their activities and experiences, so that, to some extent, they should be able to see through the neo-liberal rhetoric and propaganda of the capitalist system, recognising that their interests my be best served by changing it. Gramsci described it as a time of political trench warfare in which the revolutionary elements in society attempt to win over the hearts and minds of the subject classes, the masses, in other words, the public.

Oops, this is where my conflation point properly belongs. I think that we are in agreement thus far, although Gramsci's view of revolutionary elements is far removed from the current realities of socializing forces in the rightward democracies.

Gandhi is indeed excellent. I was recommending a reading on the Rev. James Lawson yesterday, and I stand by it. After getting out of jail for conscientious objection against the Korean War and before being the catalyzer behind SNCC, Lawson went to India to study Gandhi's method of nonviolent direct action.

David Hume's 18th century assertion that subjective (observed) knowledge can only describe how reality appears to us, an “apparent reality”, rather than the objective “deep reality” that describes the ultimate physical laws and substances that constitute our world, which still stands unrefuted to this day.

This goes back to Kant's Prolegomena on All Future Metaphysics (IIRC), in which he posited the phenomenal, experienced world and noumenal unknowable world, thus creating the subtopic of philosophical phenomenology. After studying correlations in Bohr & Heisenburg's different takes on the meaning of their science with the philosophies of phenomenologists through history, I agree that Bohr was a Hume-follower. Heisenburg had more of a Schopenhauerist take on his work. Many of the people reaching for meaning in quantum physics assume that the odd behavior of subatomic particles does point towards a glimpse of the noumenal world, but this seems to be to be patently impossible. The noumenal world, by definition, is unknowable, a Platonic ideal of a world, thus easy to discard as useless whether "real" or "unreal". It's an intellectual dead-end. The permutations of phenomenal world are more important.

At least, or so I argued ten years ago. I might need to re-think my position on all of this.


Betsy HP - Apr 02, 2003 1:40:02 pm PST #3020 of 9843
If I only had a brain...

Whoa. I'm feeling uneducated, and I'm arrogant enough that's hard to do. I'm listening with fascinated half-comprehension.

I just found the following in a blog:

the "English dessert or STD?" game beloved by generations of Americans at Oxford. Examples: spotted dick? treacle?

Snerk.


Hayden - Apr 02, 2003 2:03:39 pm PST #3021 of 9843
aka "The artist formerly known as Corwood Industries."

I'm sorry, Betsy. I'm using a lot of shorthand for bigger arguments, and I should definitely either delineate them or wait for my head to clear before trying to discuss them.


Betsy HP - Apr 02, 2003 2:05:05 pm PST #3022 of 9843
If I only had a brain...

Hayden, no need for apology. The fault is in the reader, not the writer. I mean that.


Fay - Apr 02, 2003 2:09:18 pm PST #3023 of 9843
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

The sidelines are very nice at this time of year, aren't they?

wrod. No hotdog for me, thanks - although popcorn would be acceptable.

I appear to be developing a crush on moonlit. I may even indulge in a spot of Cordy-esque cheerleading.


Fay - Apr 02, 2003 2:11:43 pm PST #3024 of 9843
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

the "English dessert or STD?" game beloved by generations of Americans at Oxford. Examples: spotted dick? treacle?

Ah, British food. Such evocative names. Bubble and Squeak. Toad-in-the-hole. Ploughman's Lunch. Shepherd's Pie. Flies' Graveyards.


Hayden - Apr 02, 2003 2:11:57 pm PST #3025 of 9843
aka "The artist formerly known as Corwood Industries."

I appreciate it, Betsy, but feel that when a reader as smart as you is having some difficulty in following the arguments, the fault must be with the writer. I still think it's because I'm using shorthand, and promise to try to draw some of the arguments out better in the future. The problem with shorthand, like with any code, is always the frame of reference, and each of us has a unique one of those, so I'll shoot for a bit more specificity for general consumption.


P.M. Marc - Apr 02, 2003 2:54:34 pm PST #3026 of 9843
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

I appear to be developing a crush on moonlit. I may even indulge in a spot of Cordy-esque cheerleading.

plus check out the gallery. she's purty.


Fay - Apr 02, 2003 3:05:59 pm PST #3027 of 9843
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

fans self

Holy mother of foamosity, Batman! (And indeed, there seem to be a whole bunch of pics that have been added since last I visited. Pretty pretty people.)