You two carried me through that war. Now I need you to carry me just a little bit further. If you can.

Tracy ,'The Message'


Literary Buffistas 3: Don't Parse the Blurb, Dear.

There's more to life than watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No. Really, there is! Honestly! Here's a place for Buffistas to come and discuss what it is they're reading, their favorite authors and poets. "Geez. Crack a book sometime."


DavidS - Jun 22, 2007 8:35:38 am PDT #2944 of 28195
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I just don't think of box cutters as "technology," so that's part of where my disconnect comes from.

Well, as ita notes, they are. Technology isn't just circuit boards. Sterling used to spin a scenario about creating machetes out of new light weight ceramics that were super strong and very sharp and imagining how quickly deforestation would happen if they were cheap too. Cyberpunk was very into the implications of cheap technology. Also into how things could be repurposed.

The main point about 9/11, though, is really about the mindset of hacking. The way the cyberpunks liked to write about it this involved understanding systems and the implications of them better than the people who made those systems. That's what the terrorists did with airport security.


Steph L. - Jun 22, 2007 8:41:59 am PDT #2945 of 28195
I look more rad than Lutheranism

I just don't think of box cutters as "technology," so that's part of where my disconnect comes from.

Well, as ita notes, they are.

What makes that "cyber," though? See, steampunk makes sense to me because the technology (if you can call it that, and I guess you can and I should) isn't electronic. "Steam" makes sense.

Box-cutters = "cyber" doesn't compute for me, though. (Pardon the pun.)

t edit If I'm frustrating the holy hell out of you, and you're just staring at your computer screen wondering how I manage to survive with only a brain stem, just ignore my retarded line of questioning. It's just a disconnect I've got in my head. I can see how the Matrix movies are cyberpunk (um....if, in fact, they are), but box-cutters? "Cyber" just seems like the wrong prefix.


DavidS - Jun 22, 2007 9:00:31 am PDT #2946 of 28195
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Well, "cyberpunk" as a name came to stand for a lot of things that didn't have anything to do with cybernetics. Even a lot of people associated with the genre thought it was a catchy misnomer.

And like most artistic movements, while there might be a core of shared values or interests there usually wind up being a lot of things associated with the genre that are not so neatly encapsulated.

Looking at the "punk" part of the phrase, focus more on the Do-It-Yourself ethic of American Hardcore and Indie Rock than say the comic dopeyness of the Ramones.

Think of the way that early zines exploited copier machines as a cheap alternative to the printing press. Suddenly the tools of publishing were available to anybody who could stay in their office after the boss left. That's the sort of phenomenon that interested cyberpunks.

Punk also created it's own distribution systems before the internet's wide availability. Zines created a culture of trading copies and having certain clearing house Zines (most famously Factsheet 5, but all the major punk zines like Maximum Rock and Roll did it too) where you could see a short summary of the zine and their address. You'd send them five copies of your zine, and they'd send five in return.

Distribution is one of the major bottle necks in magazine publishing, but zines created an alternative network.

So cyberpunk was always looking for the way people burrow and bore through the existing culture.


Frankenbuddha - Jun 22, 2007 9:03:26 am PDT #2947 of 28195
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

The early cyberpuynks were interested in the "elegance" of outthinking a system with the most efficient means.

Mental parkour, in other words.


Connie Neil - Jun 22, 2007 9:04:40 am PDT #2948 of 28195
brillig

parkour

???


Kathy A - Jun 22, 2007 9:05:34 am PDT #2949 of 28195
We're very stretchy. - Connie Neil

That's the free-running that's on view in the latest Bond flick.


Connie Neil - Jun 22, 2007 9:06:56 am PDT #2950 of 28195
brillig

I'm guessing "free-running" doesn't involves running shoes.


Nutty - Jun 22, 2007 9:08:27 am PDT #2951 of 28195
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

I think what might help is if we formally defined cyberpunk as:

n. An attitude characterized by radical re-use of existing tools, machines, and business processes, with the express purpose of undermining, showing up, or otherwise exploiting weaknesses in the dominant paradigm. Etymology relates to the most famous practice of cyberpunk, i.e. computer hacking.

Whereas steampunk strikes me as an aesthetic rather than an attitude; and its etymology is pretty plainly modeled on cyberpunk.

I, for one, am ready for no words to suffix themselves with "punk" and become cooler thereby. It is so DONE, people.


Polter-Cow - Jun 22, 2007 9:11:16 am PDT #2952 of 28195
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

That's so etymopunk.


Connie Neil - Jun 22, 2007 9:12:11 am PDT #2953 of 28195
brillig

etymopunk.

I first saw that as emopunk and thought "isn't that a contradiction?"