Thanks Gris. That's how I remember what happened on the show and is exactly why I used the quotes.
Early: Where'd she go? Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's not incorporeally possessing a space ship. Don't look at me.
'Objects In Space'
Veronica Mars: Annoy, Tiny Blonde One. Annoy Like the Wind.
[NAFDA] Spoiler Policy: Seasons 1-3 and the movie are fair game. Spoiler font two weeks for new content presented all at once (e.g. Season 4 on Hulu is fair game as of Aug. 9, 2019). New content presented as weekly episodes may be discussed with no restrictions as it is released.
Jon B. - Dec 21, 2005 9:52:22 am PST #1537 of 5730
A turkey in every toilet -- only in America!
Topic!Cindy - Dec 21, 2005 9:58:25 am PST #1538 of 5730
What is even happening?
I think the rape (and Tep's right on in that it's rape) is different than what we're used to, because the rapist(s) ends up being a series of events more than a person, so I understand why some people don't think of it as a rape, and I also understand Veronica's reactions (and lack thereof) once she has the facts about Shelly's party.
Veronica was drugged without either her consent or knowledge, and had her ability to consent stolen from her. She was raped.
Duncan was drugged without either his consent or knowledge, and had his ability to consent stolen from him. He was raped.
Veronica's ability to consent to sex was stolen as the result of unforeseen consequences, or at least was stolen more quickly as the result of unforeseen consequences. Dick intended to steal Madison's ability to consent. Madison only intended to steal Veronica's ability to consent (or refuse) to swallowing Madison's saliva. When coupled with whatever alcohol Veronica willingly consumed (at least the first Madison-spit-spiked rum and Coke) and those drinks poured down her throat by a whole group of guys, once her ability to consent to drink was removed as a result of consuming rum and (unbeknownst to her or anyone else) GHB.
Duncan's ability to consent was stolen from him by Logan, who spiked his drink with GHB.
Gris - Dec 21, 2005 10:07:02 am PST #1539 of 5730
Hey. New board.
So Duncan and Veronica were both raped, but there was no actual rapist? Or did Veronica have multiple rapists, and Logan raped Duncan, despite that the only sex was between them? Do I rape myself if I intentionally drink past the point of knowing what I'm doing, or dose myself with GHB? All very confusing.
Topic!Cindy - Dec 21, 2005 10:16:50 am PST #1540 of 5730
What is even happening?
So Duncan and Veronica were both raped, but there was no actual rapist?Their sex partners were not the rapists. Acts were perpetrated which resulted in events and circumstance in which it was impossible for the participants to consent to sex.
Or did Veronica have multiple rapists, and Logan raped Duncan, despite that the only sex was between them?No. There's no human rapist.
Do I rape myself if I intentionally drink past the point of knowing what I'm doing, or dose myself with GHB?
No, but you're not (legally, at least in some places) or morally (imo) capable of consenting to sex. If someone else has sex with you (someone who can consent) that person is raping you.
It's been a long time since I took Business Law, but if I recall correctly, you are also not bound by contracts you sign while intoxicated.
Topic!Cindy - Dec 21, 2005 10:18:06 am PST #1541 of 5730
What is even happening?
Back on the consent schtick for a minute, consent is why sex with a minor is considered (statutory) rape. A minor is not able to give consent to sex acts.
Jon B. - Dec 21, 2005 10:20:11 am PST #1542 of 5730
A turkey in every toilet -- only in America!
So Veronica and Duncan were both raped even though no one raped them....
Steph L. - Dec 21, 2005 10:20:22 am PST #1543 of 5730
I look more rad than Lutheranism
The implication of the show is that she consented, but didn't remember consenting (or, obviously, anything about the encounter) the next morning.
A person who's impaired (drunk, high, mentally handicapped, asleep) cannot, by definition, give consent. Yes, physically, their mouth can open and words can come out. But it's not fully informed consent, and is, therefore, rape. There is no other term for it.
Do I rape myself if I intentionally drink past the point of knowing what I'm doing, or dose myself with GHB?
No, what you're doing in that case is incapacitating yourself such that you are unable to consent. Anyone who had sex with you while you were in such a state would, in fact, be raping you.
Gris - Dec 21, 2005 10:21:23 am PST #1544 of 5730
Hey. New board.
If someone else has sex with you (someone who can consent) that person is raping you.
Huh. So I could dose myself with GHB, sleep with the girl that's been after me for a long time but I wouldn't normally touch with a 10-foot pole, wake up the next morning horrified, and successfully prosecute her for rape? Even if she had NO IDEA I was GHBed?
That seems... off to me.
§ ita § - Dec 21, 2005 10:22:04 am PST #1545 of 5730
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
consent is why sex with a minor is considered (statutory) rape
Which'd make it rape anyway, even if they weren't GHBed up.
Nora Deirdre - Dec 21, 2005 10:25:55 am PST #1546 of 5730
I’m responsible for my own happiness? I can’t even be responsible for my own breakfast! (Bojack Horseman)
So I could dose myself with GHB, sleep with the girl that's been after me for a long time but I wouldn't normally touch with a 10-foot pole, wake up the next morning horrified, and successfully prosecute her for rape? Even if she had NO IDEA I was GHBed?
Technically, probably, but... eh, I doubt any cop would take your statement. Right or wrong as that may or may not be.