You never know if a girl's gonna say 'yes', or if she's gonna laugh in your face and pull out your still-beating heart and crush it into the ground with her heel.

Xander ,'Help'


Veronica Mars: Annoy, Tiny Blonde One. Annoy Like the Wind.

[NAFDA] Spoiler Policy: Seasons 1-3 and the movie are fair game. Spoiler font two weeks for new content presented all at once (e.g. Season 4 on Hulu is fair game as of Aug. 9, 2019). New content presented as weekly episodes may be discussed with no restrictions as it is released.


Jon B. - Dec 21, 2005 10:20:11 am PST #1542 of 5730
A turkey in every toilet -- only in America!

So Veronica and Duncan were both raped even though no one raped them....


Steph L. - Dec 21, 2005 10:20:22 am PST #1543 of 5730
I look more rad than Lutheranism

The implication of the show is that she consented, but didn't remember consenting (or, obviously, anything about the encounter) the next morning.

A person who's impaired (drunk, high, mentally handicapped, asleep) cannot, by definition, give consent. Yes, physically, their mouth can open and words can come out. But it's not fully informed consent, and is, therefore, rape. There is no other term for it.

Do I rape myself if I intentionally drink past the point of knowing what I'm doing, or dose myself with GHB?

No, what you're doing in that case is incapacitating yourself such that you are unable to consent. Anyone who had sex with you while you were in such a state would, in fact, be raping you.


Gris - Dec 21, 2005 10:21:23 am PST #1544 of 5730
Hey. New board.

If someone else has sex with you (someone who can consent) that person is raping you.

Huh. So I could dose myself with GHB, sleep with the girl that's been after me for a long time but I wouldn't normally touch with a 10-foot pole, wake up the next morning horrified, and successfully prosecute her for rape? Even if she had NO IDEA I was GHBed?

That seems... off to me.


§ ita § - Dec 21, 2005 10:22:04 am PST #1545 of 5730
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

consent is why sex with a minor is considered (statutory) rape

Which'd make it rape anyway, even if they weren't GHBed up.


Nora Deirdre - Dec 21, 2005 10:25:55 am PST #1546 of 5730
I’m responsible for my own happiness? I can’t even be responsible for my own breakfast! (Bojack Horseman)

So I could dose myself with GHB, sleep with the girl that's been after me for a long time but I wouldn't normally touch with a 10-foot pole, wake up the next morning horrified, and successfully prosecute her for rape? Even if she had NO IDEA I was GHBed?

Technically, probably, but... eh, I doubt any cop would take your statement. Right or wrong as that may or may not be.


Laura - Dec 21, 2005 10:29:19 am PST #1547 of 5730
Our wings are not tired.

Veronica and Duncan were both victims. They both had horrible morning afters. Of course Duncan remembered what happened and didn't discuss it with Veronica, which pretty awful too.


sumi - Dec 21, 2005 10:31:02 am PST #1548 of 5730
Art Crawl!!!

It is, but he took his cue from Veronica who also wasn't talking.


Topic!Cindy - Dec 21, 2005 10:39:11 am PST #1549 of 5730
What is even happening?

So Veronica and Duncan were both raped even though no one raped them....

Yes, in that they had sex while unable to consent to sex. That doesn't mean they have to react in any certain way, of course. Veronica doesn't remember the event. What (at least as I saw the show) seemed most traumatic to her, was (a) waking up knowing it had happened without knowing who, how, why; (b) not having the Sheriff take her complaint seriously; (c) not knowing who she'd been with; (d) being slipped a mickey.

All of the above save (b) have been rectified. She doesn't have traumatic memories of it, or any memories of it, at all.

Duncan's primary concern was that he'd committed an act of incest. Once that was ruled out, his primary objection had been rectified.

I really thought this was a great twisty plot, by the way, because you couldn't really walk away from this reacting the way you would to a more conventional sort of rape plot. I was even more pleased that the sex occurred between two people who might have consented to having sex with each other (if they'd known there was no incest tabboo).


Topic!Cindy - Dec 21, 2005 10:40:27 am PST #1550 of 5730
What is even happening?

Which'd make it rape anyway, even if they weren't GHBed up.

What's the age of consent in California? If they were both under the age of consent, I'm not sure if it's still considered statutory rape.


Steph L. - Dec 21, 2005 10:51:43 am PST #1551 of 5730
I look more rad than Lutheranism

All of the above save (b) have been rectified. She doesn't have traumatic memories of it, or any memories of it, at all.

Except for the knowledge that Duncan had sex with her when she was too impaired to consent, AND while *he* still thought she was his sister.

Duncan's primary concern was that he'd committed an act of incest. Once that was ruled out, his primary objection had been rectified.

Except for the fact that he had sex with Veronica even though she was too impaired to consent, AND at the time that he had sex with her, he still thought she was his sister.

That's why Duncan and Veronica being back together skeeves me hugely.