That makes me sad, because that nice guy does exist. But Xander's not that guy. Which makes me wonder if some of them are that guy, but think they're not acting like Xander, so it's all good. I mean, someone's always that guy in a decently sized crowd.
Giles, if you would like to get by in American society, then you are going to have to follow our traditions. You're the patriarch. You have to host the festivities, or it's all meaningless.
Buffy ,'Sleeper'
Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!
Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.
§ ita § - Jan 05, 2012 9:22:32 pm PST #8132 of 10459
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Jessica - Jan 06, 2012 3:34:12 am PST #8133 of 10459
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset
There's a lot of complaint in the comments about Xander slut-shaming Cordelia. And trying to control Buffy's love life.
Well, yeah, he does that. But it's not like high school guys having GIANT blind spots that lead them to be be occasionally douchey to their female friends is all that unusual. It's pretty unreasonable to expect a 15 year-old from 1998 to act and think like a Pandagon blogger.
le nubian - Jan 06, 2012 3:44:08 am PST #8134 of 10459
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."
But to bag on Xander - doesn't that miss the point a bit? Willow and Xander were both socially awkward with their own hangups before Buffy came along. Willow was completely hung up on Xander for years. And as stated, Cordelia was a fucking asshole before her character shift that went into Angel.
I thought the point of it is that they all kind of act like assholes during the course of the series and...this is high school.
Although Xander looks like a man, we cannot expect realistic 30 year old behavior from a character who is supposed to be a sophomore/junior.
Jessica - Jan 06, 2012 3:45:29 am PST #8135 of 10459
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset
LeN, I completely agree.
sumi - Jan 06, 2012 4:34:12 am PST #8136 of 10459
Art Crawl!!!
I agree with LeN too.
P.M. Marc - Jan 06, 2012 7:06:04 am PST #8137 of 10459
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear
Eh, I think Xander does suffer from Nice Guy Syndrome. I don't hate him, but I want to punch him in the face a lot.
le nubian - Jan 06, 2012 7:11:29 am PST #8138 of 10459
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."
But can you call it that for someone who is 15 or 16? I don't think NGS applies to males who aren't men.
§ ita § - Jan 06, 2012 7:17:58 am PST #8139 of 10459
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
You may know nicer Nice Guys than I do. I get being disappointed and covetous. Nice Guys think they're owed affection, and that's an important line I don't think X crosses.
DavidS - Jan 06, 2012 7:19:17 am PST #8140 of 10459
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."
Nice Guys think they're owed affection, and that's an important line I don't think X crosses.
Xander doesn't believe he deserves anything good. But he still wants good things.
§ ita § - Jan 06, 2012 7:21:14 am PST #8141 of 10459
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I think feeling owed, wanting, and deserving are different things. Only the first one is bad in this scenario. The second is perfectly reasonable, and the third is fine in moderation. He might be deserving of Buffy, but if she doesn't want him, that's irrelevant.