Buffistas

I've been out of the abbey two days, I've beaten a lawman senseless, I've fallen in with criminals. I watched the captain shoot the man I swore to protect. And I'm not even sure if I think he was wrong.

Book ,'Serenity'

Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!

Film and TV discussion

Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.

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le nubian - Jan 06, 2012 3:44:08 am PST #8134 of 10459

"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

But to bag on Xander - doesn't that miss the point a bit? Willow and Xander were both socially awkward with their own hangups before Buffy came along. Willow was completely hung up on Xander for years. And as stated, Cordelia was a fucking asshole before her character shift that went into Angel.

I thought the point of it is that they all kind of act like assholes during the course of the series and...this is high school.

Although Xander looks like a man, we cannot expect realistic 30 year old behavior from a character who is supposed to be a sophomore/junior.

Jessica - Jan 06, 2012 3:45:29 am PST #8135 of 10459

And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

LeN, I completely agree.

sumi - Jan 06, 2012 4:34:12 am PST #8136 of 10459

Art Crawl!!!

I agree with LeN too.

P.M. Marc - Jan 06, 2012 7:06:04 am PST #8137 of 10459

So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Eh, I think Xander does suffer from Nice Guy Syndrome. I don't hate him, but I want to punch him in the face a lot.

le nubian - Jan 06, 2012 7:11:29 am PST #8138 of 10459

"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

But can you call it that for someone who is 15 or 16? I don't think NGS applies to males who aren't men.

§ ita § - Jan 06, 2012 7:17:58 am PST #8139 of 10459

Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

You may know nicer Nice Guys than I do. I get being disappointed and covetous. Nice Guys think they're owed affection, and that's an important line I don't think X crosses.

DavidS - Jan 06, 2012 7:19:17 am PST #8140 of 10459

"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Nice Guys think they're owed affection, and that's an important line I don't think X crosses.

Xander doesn't believe he deserves anything good. But he still wants good things.

§ ita § - Jan 06, 2012 7:21:14 am PST #8141 of 10459

Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I think feeling owed, wanting, and deserving are different things. Only the first one is bad in this scenario. The second is perfectly reasonable, and the third is fine in moderation. He might be deserving of Buffy, but if she doesn't want him, that's irrelevant.

Frankenbuddha - Jan 06, 2012 7:44:23 am PST #8142 of 10459

"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

I also think that Xander's hate-on for Angel (and thus the BIG LIE) was as much (if not more) about hating on vampires in general (and what happened to Jesse) and specifically about what Angelus had put them through as it was about anything to do with Angel & Buffy.

Stop me before I parenthisize again.

P.M. Marc - Jan 06, 2012 7:48:18 am PST #8143 of 10459

So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

But can you call it that for someone who is 15 or 16? I don't think NGS applies to males who aren't men.

Yes.

You may know nicer Nice Guys than I do. I get being disappointed and covetous. Nice Guys think they're owed affection, and that's an important line I don't think X crosses.

My line is, are you a passive-aggressive douche about it? If so, you have NGS.

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