OK, leaving aside any possible thematic similarities (and I think there are a great deal in the shows that seem to get MOST discussed from both), there's also the fact that unlike most of the Network Drama shows (not all, certainly, but most), the cable and premium cable shows get broadcast multiple times during the week, so you don't even need to DVR or TIVO them when they are first broadcast, which leads to a far greater disparity in the viewing time for folks.

Yeah. Though I would stress again the thematics, as well as the audience, also contribute to my own wish to have Premium and Cable together.

I really, strongly disagree that they should be kept apart under the reasoning that, some point in the future, someone might purchase a Premium show and watch it. In the future. For those of us who have been using the experimentals over the last month, and Boxed Set and Movies before that, we learned to skip around the thread to read the shows we watched, or the shows we didn't get spoiled for. Addressing the whitefront policy might ease some of this. But I really don't think possible spoilers--for something that might be watched, feasibly, a year after it was originally aired--is a strong reason for not folding Cable into Premium. Particularly when the posting volume of both threads is so low that remaining unspoiled is pretty straightforward. The shows from Premium and Cable do not inspire watch and posts. They inspire, as someone noted above, more thought-out and robust discussion. I think that discussion dovetails very nicely together, and thus will propose myself that they are put together once we have drawn whatever conclusions we need to draw from this discussion.

I am also not sure what, exactly, we are meant to be doing here. Cindy proposed the experimentals with a view to collecting data, if I recalled correctly. And it's a month later, and I suppose we have what data we might feasibly need. But thus far in the discussion, of those who have participated in the discussion, it seems like the broad categories established work well enough for our purposes. We have a focused place to discuss television. We obviously are discussing that television with each other. More than once, in the threads, there were posts of "oh! I get to talk about x now!", which was pretty cool, to give a platform for that discussion.

I mean, what categories do we need, other than the ones we used before? The categories that were created in experiementals worked surprisingly well for what they were, and the issue as I see it seems to be the spoiler policy.

I think that, like it or not, the substantive change was made when we created the experimental threads. It was a try-out, but it was a try-out that, in my opinion, succeeded. And people have figured those threads out now--you know where to go to discuss x. It seems like a shame to take that away when it worked for our needs, such as they are. Particularly when we don't seem to have another category system, from previous discussion, that works as well or is as agreed upon. (For example, days of the week thread would be impossible, for the number of people who ahem or tivo. It is impossible for me to keep track of what network things are on, because my own television view is far, far removed from both a television and airing schedules.)

And in addition to that, I think that, just like Boxed Set, setting up bucket threads such as they are doesn't prohibit new, more specific threads for being created. If (ha!) Law and Order started taking over Network to the point that you couldn't sneeze without discussion of D'Onofrio, then someone proposes a L&O thread. If--though I don't think this is particularly likely--Network is taken over by people who only discuss House and Grey's Anatomy and the medical relevance of these shows, then you create a medical drama thread. There's no reason to think that the same threads used to collect data cannot *still* be used to collect data, by allowing discussion to wander as it does and the need for threads arise when they do. Why do we need (continued...)

( continues...) a permanent solution now?

And finally, I don't particularly want to spend the entire summer talking about this, because my summer has a handful of shows that will be airing that I will want to talk about. Just because we've gotten through sweeps, and the networks have gone to hibernate, doesn't mean there isn't television to watch or to talk about. Hell, even re-runs generate discussion. So I think that, in the interest of fostering that discussion, and taking in to account the general (if unintended) success of the threads, that creating threads along the lines of what was set up in Experimentals is not a bad idea at all. Particularly since I think we've already made the substantive change, even if we didn't mean for it to be so.

I really liked the experimental threads and would love for all of them to return in one way, shape, or form. I couldn't care less if cable drama is in premium or not. It seems to me that one reason to make this distinction is if premium or cable drama are each getting so much traffic that there might be a need to break the threads up.

So I come down on the traffic side, not necessarily the thematic side - but that is an important point as well.

I'm just so pleased I had the opportunity to engage in discussion with all of you in a variety of threads.

I would probably be the fourth 2nd, but I am holding it until more discussion takes place since that is an upthread request.

It seems to me that one reason to make this distinction is if premium or cable drama are each getting so much traffic that there might be a need to break the threads up.

Yeah, I guess to me it's more a question of justifying separate threads than anything. "I may one day buy it on DVD" is not the most compelling argument, I have to say (and I intend to one day buy lots of them on DVD).

But to get to specifics - there was whitefont in the experimental cable drama thread. Is there in Premium? I'm guessing not. What sort of whitefont arrangements would people want if we were to merge those two threads? Thoughts?

"I may one day buy it on DVD" is not the most compelling argument, I have to say

not to mention you could argue it in the face of any show we talk about. I don't see why premium shows should get special treatment.

There is no whitefront policy for Premium. To tell the truth, it hasn't been much of an issue--discussion doesn't always take place the day of, or during a show. It tends to creep in during the week, more of a meander than a focused flurry. So, in my opinion, whitefront hasn't been necessary.

That can probably be shifted if Cable is folded in, but I kind of want to know what the Cable folks think about the whitefront they used before changing the Premium settings.

"I may one day buy it on DVD" is not the most compelling argument, I have to say

not to mention you could argue it in the face of any show we talk about. I don't see why premium shows should get special treatment.

Some of us don't get the premium stations, and, therefore, don't get the choice of watching it the first time around.

I'd definitely be in favor of expanding Premium to include all cable -- in terms of the experiment, Cable Drama did not, IMO, generate enough traffic on its own to justify a new thread.

There's a few things I'm thinking and/or wondering about as I read this discussion. I'm just going to make note of them in no particular order.

• As several people have noted, we don't have to provide for every show we want to discuss in one big proposal.

• Are there any shows that seem to generate enough discussion for a single-show thread, and which would probably work best in a single-show thread?

• Were there any shows that seemed like a natural pairing (or triple, quad, etc)?

• Where did the divisions fail? For example, SA mentioned she thought TDS and TCR would have worked better in Comedy than in Non-Fiction. Did anyone want to mention parts that didn't work for them?

My druther: If we create any new threads and any of them end up being NAFDA bucket threads, I would like to see us clearly note which shows are being discussed, so people don't spoil themselves by accident, but I'd also like to provide room for test driving new shows. In other words, if some new show pleasantly surprised us, we could discuss it in white font (with clear labels) in that bucket thread where it seemed to fit, before coming over to here/Lightbulbs and changing the world. That way we could see if there are clear, bright lines, before we start having the argument about whether or not the lines are clear and bright.

edited

My second druther: I hope we don't thread nanny people's TV discussions out of Natter. I hate that people were left feeling like they couldn't discuss TV in Natter during the experiment.

I hope we don't thread nanny people's TV discussions out of Natter. I hate that people were left feeling like they couldn't discuss TV in Natter during the experiment.

And this is me. I mean, this is how I feel. Because of this, the feel of natter has shifted for me. But I've mentioned it before and, while others feel similarly that it has changed natter, it doesn't seem to phase most of the community and many seem to not to take it into consideration at all.

That being said, my objections don't particulalry matter given the juggernaut of support. But I am posting them because inexplicably it seems important to me to note that not everyone thought the experiment went so well.

For example, SA mentioned she thought TDS and TCR would have worked better in Comedy than in Non-Fiction.

Would have? I know this came up, and I thought it was pretty clear that that was the consensus anyway. But I am finding my perceptions on a number of things in this discussion aren't universal. Who knew?

In other words, if some new show pleasantly surprised us, we could discuss it in white font (with clear labels) in that bucket thread where it seemed to fit, before coming over to here/Lightbulbs and changing the world.

Not in Natter? I don't think different whitefont rules within a thread for different shows is really workable. Hmmm. If we ended up with, say, Network Drama as is (meaning no more specific than that), I'd expect there to be discussion in the thread of whatever new show was coming up with whatever the wf standard for that thread is. I'd also expect to see it in whitefont in Natter. I personally don't have a problem with that, but I speak only for me.

If we do end up discussing things in more than one place, then I would want an absolute max of 24 hours whitefont in the dedicated thread, if we decide we want it at all.

Actually, to continue on with the whitefont question. Part of the reason I like the 24 hours rule is that if you are time-shifted, and like a lot of us Tivoers, aren't even terribly clear on how much, the 24 hours can give you a heads-up before you get spoiled.

Any longer than that seems to me like it would a) hamper discussion some and b) not actually be helpful to longer-range timeshifters anyway. The discussion part I think would be minor, so I don't think it's a major issue on its own. But if it's not going to even solve anyone's thread issues, that's a bigger issue to me.