JB's career is full of ubercool & uberweird things (sometimes inseparable). His achievement -- he changed the face of modern music (at least the popular variety, and I've read more than one composer who cited him as an influence) -- & his wackiness are both hard to overstate.

Heh. Then you're going to love the part of the book where I say he's overrated!

Well, not really. But I do think his influence has been overstated in the same way that Louis Armstrong's influence was overstated in the Ken Burns jazz doc.

Which is to say, of course they're titans, and HUGE in American music. But by making them that HUGE you wind up distorting the history. Mostly I wanted to make the case that while I think James Brown is funky, he isn't Funk. (Except for the very brief period when he had the JBs with Bootsy.) I think Sly and the Family Stone were far more influential on the direction of black music from the late sixties on.

I just don't hear James Brown rhythms except as pastiche (with a huge and notable exception being "Funky Drummer" samples). But Larry Graham's bass-playing defined black music for the last 40 years.

Here's what I wrote:

Some celebrated artists still need reconsideration because their narrative doesn't scan neatly. Because Sly Stone remains inconveniently alive, the history of funk and rap has been grossly distorted. James Brown is a gigantor dust magnet accruing credit for every flicker in black music for the last four decades. While his rhythmic innovations brought a stinky new whipcrack funkiness to American music, James Brown did not invent funk. He's sui generis—nobody sounds like him except by pastiche. Neither did George Clinton invent funk. Funk starts on the thumb-callous of Larry Graham on "Thank You (Falettinme Be Mice Elf Agin)"—and all things funky roll outward from that low, seismic tremor. But Sly crawled up a hole in his nostril thirty years ago, and George Clinton's a cuddlier interview for VH-1. Also, the Family Stone's epochal Woodstock performance date-stamps them as Hippie Rock in a way that muddles the clear line from There's a Riot Goin On through every Dr. Dre production.

Though to counter my own argument, one place where you do hear a huge seventies James Brown influence is in African music, particularly Fela.

Funk starts on the thumb-callous of Larry Graham on "Thank You (Falettinme Be Mice Elf Agin)"

Ooh! And then that hey/scream thing? So fucking awesome. I am hearing the right song in my head, right?

Ooh! And then that hey/scream thing? So fucking awesome. I am hearing the right song in my head, right?

Don't you have any Sly in your house? See, this is what I'm talking about.

"Thankyou..." isn't so screamy to my recollection. More ominous and low and bass-popping.

note to self: put more Sly on the Jesse funk thang.

"Thankyou..." isn't so screamy to my recollection. More ominous and low and bass-popping.

Well, the singing style is very different from other S&FS hits. I'd apply "scream" more to the beginning of "Dance to the Music."

I'd also argue that Charles Wright & the (and I know I'm not getting this exactly right) Watts 103rd Street Rhythm Band were at least funky, and maybe even funk. Example -- "Express Yourself."

I'd also argue that Charles Wright & the (and I know I'm not getting this exactly right) Watts 103rd Street Rhythm Band were at least funky, and maybe even funk. Example -- "Express Yourself."

Yup, an underrated band right on that cusp of hard soul and funk.

Now playing: Nick Hornby's favorite record of the last fifteen years.

Points to anybody who knows what it is.

(Hint: it's very unfunky.)

I think Sly and the Family Stone were far more influential on the direction of black music from the late sixties on.

That's because you see everything through Bay Area lenses.:-) Seriously, Sly was huge (and his burn out is one of the music's saddest episodes), but JB was a big influence on him. The only one? Of course not. Sly's tastes and listening habits were famously catholic, and part of his brilliance was taking them and making "a whole new thing" out of them. Would there have been a Family Stone w/o JB? Probably. Would it have been different? I think that's undeniable. The soundscape created by "Out of Sight" and "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag" was as indispensible to his development as his love of the Beatles.

One of the problems about debating influence is that it's often such a two-way street. Sly was influenced by James. Larry Graham influenced Bootsy. Bootsy's tenure with JB was short but important for both. He hooks up w/ George Clinton (whose tastes were nearly as broad as Sly's) and brings Sly *and* the Godfather w/ him & influences countless new funkateers. And Bernard Edwards' bass lines were sampled as often as anyone's in hip hop. And James Jamerson had already moved the bass a central position in R&B before Larry Graham and Nard. And Mingus had achieved something similar in jazz in the fifties - the scene from which James Jamerson emerged. Miles lifted the bass line from "Say It Loud, I'm Black and I'm Proud" for "Yesternow" on Jack Johnson. And you could still hear Pops' influence on Miles on that record. So it goes.

Nick Hornby guess:

I would say Bruce, but I don't think of you as a Bruce fan...so..hmm. I dunno.

Also - JB's Foundations of Funk: A Brand New Bag 64-69 is the most fun album I think I have ever heard - stayed in my stereo for months after I bought it. But I don't really know anything about him - or funk for that matter.