Spoilers for the EE. If this is all true, even more people noting omissions here are going to be pleased.
That's insane troll logic!
Xander ,'Showtime'
LotR - The Return of the King: "We named the *dog* 'Strider'".
Frodo: Please, what does it always mean, this... this "Aragorn"? Elrond: That's his name. Aragorn, son of Arathorn. Aragorn: I like "Strider." Elrond: We named the *dog* "Strider".
A discussion of Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King. If you're a pervy hobbit fancier, this is the place for you.
§ ita § - Dec 20, 2003 1:25:04 pm PST #494 of 3902
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
scrappy - Dec 20, 2003 1:25:31 pm PST #495 of 3902
Nobody
Susan, speaking for me, I think you clarified what you meant very elegantly. And I wouldn't worry about not being perfectly apt on the first go-round--after all, 75% of writing os RE-writing, and we don't really have this luxury here. We all kind of hone and clarify on the fly, due to the nature on online posting.
Nutty - Dec 20, 2003 1:33:34 pm PST #496 of 3902
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."
Well, yes, there's the played by Liv Tyler part of the equation.
In the book, it is an ultimatum, although I don't think it's ever phrased in the negative so much as "If this and this occur, then that", with the if-not parts being partially unspoken. In trying to come up with a way for Arwen to be actively involved in her own fate, without becoming (a) Lani Jackson or (b) a wet kleenex, I think making her the one who says, "No, I won't marry you if Middle-earth is a hopeless cause" is the closest to a middle road one can hew.
I guess, I didn't mean it to come across as the bad romance novel kind of ultimatum, "I don't marry men who aren't zillionaires", but rather as the kind of ultimatum that says, "I won't marry you only to be raped and murdered by orcs shortly thereafter." Basically, push her "I choose a mortal life" decision back to the middle/end of the movie(s), rather than leaving it at the beginning.
§ ita § - Dec 20, 2003 1:34:55 pm PST #497 of 3902
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Is it stated to him, or understood?
Cindy - Dec 20, 2003 1:36:08 pm PST #498 of 3902
Nobody
Skipping to gloat that I'm unexpectedly expecting to see this movie at 8:05. By my PC clock that means there's just 89 minutes--exactly--left to go!
Whee.
DavidS - Dec 20, 2003 1:39:28 pm PST #499 of 3902
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."
Spoilers for the EE. If this is all true, even more people noting omissions here are going to be pleased.
That does allay some of my quibbles, but damn...it really makes it a different movie in some respects. Notably... what's really going on when Aragorn and troops are drawing out Sauron's forces at the black gates.
Katie M - Dec 20, 2003 1:55:07 pm PST #500 of 3902
I was charmed (albeit somewhat perplexed) by the fannish sensibility of many of the music choices -- it's like the director was trying to vid Canada. --loligo on the Olympic Opening Ceremonies
Spoilers for the EE.
Mouth of Sauron! Frodo's mithril coat! Woo!
Nutty - Dec 20, 2003 2:00:49 pm PST #501 of 3902
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."
Is it stated to him, or understood?
Finally found it. Appendix A, Ballantine P. 422-5:
A great doom awaits you, either to rise above the height of all your fathers since the days of Elendil, or to fall into darkness with all that is left of your kin. [...]
Therefore, though I love you, I say to you: Arwen Undomiel shall not diminish her life's grace for less cause. She shall not be the bride of any Man less than the King of both Gondor and Arnor.
...actually, if book-Arwen had a spine at all, she probably would have told her pop to butt out, since she'd already plighted (??) her troth to Strider back when he was a mere 49 years old.
Katie M - Dec 20, 2003 2:03:00 pm PST #502 of 3902
I was charmed (albeit somewhat perplexed) by the fannish sensibility of many of the music choices -- it's like the director was trying to vid Canada. --loligo on the Olympic Opening Ceremonies
Yeah, which pretty much proves that Arwen was not so much with the spine.
I really much prefer Luthien. Luthien was not a woman who took crap from anybody.
ted r - Dec 20, 2003 6:27:40 pm PST #503 of 3902
"You got twelve, and they got twelve. The old ladies are just as good as you are." -Dr. Einstein
Well I finally saw it and greatly enjoyed it. I now have to go back and reread all the white-fonted stuff.
Caryn James in the Sunday NYTimes expresses her general dislike of the 3 films. It's one if those "I don't get it, so there must not be anything to get" sort of reviews that are the reason I tend to hold critics as a class in contempt.