Well, yes, there's the played by Liv Tyler part of the equation.

In the book, it is an ultimatum, although I don't think it's ever phrased in the negative so much as "If this and this occur, then that", with the if-not parts being partially unspoken. In trying to come up with a way for Arwen to be actively involved in her own fate, without becoming (a) Lani Jackson or (b) a wet kleenex, I think making her the one who says, "No, I won't marry you if Middle-earth is a hopeless cause" is the closest to a middle road one can hew.

I guess, I didn't mean it to come across as the bad romance novel kind of ultimatum, "I don't marry men who aren't zillionaires", but rather as the kind of ultimatum that says, "I won't marry you only to be raped and murdered by orcs shortly thereafter." Basically, push her "I choose a mortal life" decision back to the middle/end of the movie(s), rather than leaving it at the beginning.

Is it stated to him, or understood?

Skipping to gloat that I'm unexpectedly expecting to see this movie at 8:05. By my PC clock that means there's just 89 minutes--exactly--left to go!

Whee.

Spoilers for the EE. If this is all true, even more people noting omissions here are going to be pleased.

That does allay some of my quibbles, but damn...it really makes it a different movie in some respects. Notably... what's really going on when Aragorn and troops are drawing out Sauron's forces at the black gates.

Spoilers for the EE.

Mouth of Sauron! Frodo's mithril coat! Woo!

Is it stated to him, or understood?

Finally found it. Appendix A, Ballantine P. 422-5:

A great doom awaits you, either to rise above the height of all your fathers since the days of Elendil, or to fall into darkness with all that is left of your kin. [...]

Therefore, though I love you, I say to you: Arwen Undomiel shall not diminish her life's grace for less cause. She shall not be the bride of any Man less than the King of both Gondor and Arnor.

...actually, if book-Arwen had a spine at all, she probably would have told her pop to butt out, since she'd already plighted (??) her troth to Strider back when he was a mere 49 years old.

Yeah, which pretty much proves that Arwen was not so much with the spine.

I really much prefer Luthien. Luthien was not a woman who took crap from anybody.

Well I finally saw it and greatly enjoyed it. I now have to go back and reread all the white-fonted stuff.

Caryn James in the Sunday NYTimes expresses her general dislike of the 3 films. It's one if those "I don't get it, so there must not be anything to get" sort of reviews that are the reason I tend to hold critics as a class in contempt.

It's one if those "I don't get it, so there must not be anything to get" sort of reviews that are the reason I tend to hold critics as a class in contempt.

What about the 162 critics metered at rottentomatoes that liked it? They don't mitigate the class at all?

What about the 162 critics metered at rottentomatoes that liked it? They don't mitigate the class at all?

Nope-because I'm sure almost all of them have written that sort of review about other films.

I'll just add here that not having reread the books in many years, none of the changes bother me (since I didn't remember the specifics of the books well enough to notice them).