What Nutty said WRT Arwen. And also that as written in the both the movies and books, there was really no way I was going to walk out with any other reaction than, "Dammit, he should've married Eowyn." But the casting of both women only intensified that.
(Also, I hope I've managed to dig my foot out of my mouth from my earlier overgeneralization/poorly worded statement, because I'm about to go offline for several hours, and I really do hate it when I say stupid things, especially when they're a result of sloppy word choice, because, dammit, supposed to be a
writer
here and all that.)
I think I'd dislike that Arwen more than one that behaves as scripted, but projected a sense of worth. It's too close to an ultimatum (and seems
more
like bad romance than not). Especially being played by Liv.
Spoilers for the EE. If this is all true, even more people noting omissions here are going to be pleased.
Susan, speaking for me, I think you clarified what you meant very elegantly. And I wouldn't worry about not being perfectly apt on the first go-round--after all, 75% of writing os RE-writing, and we don't really have this luxury here. We all kind of hone and clarify on the fly, due to the nature on online posting.
Well, yes, there's the played by Liv Tyler part of the equation.
In the book, it
is
an ultimatum, although I don't think it's ever phrased in the negative so much as "If this and this occur, then that", with the if-not parts being partially unspoken. In trying to come up with a way for Arwen to be actively involved in her own fate, without becoming (a) Lani Jackson or (b) a wet kleenex, I think making her the one who says, "No, I won't marry you if Middle-earth is a hopeless cause" is the closest to a middle road one can hew.
I guess, I didn't mean it to come across as the bad romance novel kind of ultimatum, "I don't marry men who aren't zillionaires", but rather as the kind of ultimatum that says, "I won't marry you only to be raped and murdered by orcs shortly thereafter." Basically, push her "I choose a mortal life" decision back to the middle/end of the movie(s), rather than leaving it at the beginning.
Is it stated to him, or understood?
Skipping to gloat that I'm unexpectedly expecting to see this movie at 8:05. By my PC clock that means there's just 89 minutes--exactly--left to go!
Whee.
Spoilers for the EE. If this is all true, even more people noting omissions here are going to be pleased.
That does allay some of my quibbles, but damn...it really makes it a different movie in some respects. Notably...
what's really going on when Aragorn and troops are drawing out Sauron's forces at the black gates.
Spoilers for the EE.
Mouth of Sauron! Frodo's mithril coat! Woo!
Is it stated to him, or understood?
Finally found it. Appendix A, Ballantine P. 422-5:
A great doom awaits you, either to rise above the height of all your fathers since the days of Elendil, or to fall into darkness with all that is left of your kin. [...]
Therefore, though I love you, I say to you: Arwen Undomiel shall not diminish her life's grace for less cause. She shall not be the bride of any Man less than the King of both Gondor and Arnor.
...actually, if book-Arwen had a spine at all, she probably would have told her pop to butt out, since she'd already plighted (??) her troth to Strider back when he was a mere 49 years old.
