I was so sure Gothmog was modeled on some other influence, and couldn't put my finger on it. I think it was DX who suggested the Elephant Man, which is the closest Team Jackson ever came to a reference.

Theoden yelling "Death!" as the Rohirrim charge into battle is still an automatic crypoint for me.

I begrudge him the line, because it was originally Eomer's (and in a completely different context). Good speech before that, though; 11th C. apocalyptic poetry ages well!

Oh yeah, the speech leading up to that cry is a key element of the whole thing. (I don't remember Eomer being the one to cry "Death!"--what part is that in?) My other main automatic crypoint (well, besides the entire last half-hour or so, which I can't even pick a moment from) is the scene in which Gandalf tells Pippin about death and the Undying Land. Shit, I'm tearing up now just thinking about it. I don't believe in Heaven, or any kind of afterlife, really, but in that moment, I believe wholeheartedly.

(I don't remember Eomer being the one to cry "Death!"--what part is that in?)

After he sees Theoden die and recognizes Eowyn lying seemingly dead on the battlefield.

ita, he *was* Lurtz.

I know that -- I'm head of the Lurtz fan club -- my issue is that Gothmog et al have no magnetism, and Lurtz reeked of it.

I diagnosed Gothmog as suffering from neurofibromatosis after my first in-theatre viewing. And sure enough, PJ made a John Merrick reference in the EE extras.

I'm still thinking. I'm pretty sure I agree with ita on almost all of her points. One moment I treasure was the "Smeagol LIED!" admission. I'll have to watch it several times before I really have anything coherent to say.

ita, what, no love for the trebuchet missile sidestep & spit combo ? I thought Gothmog rocked. Maybe not as much as Lurtz, but still, large with the orcish rocking.

In the books, Gandalf leaves the Orthanc Palantir with Aragorn. I think that by the time Aragorn uses the palantir in the EE it could have been either the Orthanc or Minas Tirith stones, since Denethor didn't die with the Minas Tirith one in his hands.

In the theatrical Gothmog just disappears.

I think that the House of Healing scene covers what happened immediately after the battle AND stuff that happens maybe the next day? ( You know when Eowyn is able to get up and walk and so is Faramir. )

I re-watched the trilogy EE yesterday. I really enjoyed the contrast between Eowyn's dream of the Fall of Numenor -- despair, end of things and Arwen's Vision - - hope, the continuance of life.

Also, why didn't I realize before how they parallelled Smeagol's transformation into Gollum and his loss of memory/enjoyment of ordinary things at the beginning of RotK with Frodo's at the end? Nor the paralleling between Aragorn's fight with the troll and Frodo's fight with Gollum? And I must say that (having seen some more of the extras, I am so glad that they did not go with the concept of Aragorn fighting a phyiscal manifestation of Sauron or that idea that Sauron can still appear in a beautiful form -- because I believe that somewhere -- possibly in the appendices -- it says that after the Fall of Numenor (I think) he could NEVER appear in a beautiful form again. (Sauron, that is.)

Some possible (if I can't handwave them away, that is) problems with RotK have recently been pointed out to me. If you don't want your brain eaten, look away... now.

1) When Frodo, Sam and Gollum reach the Black Gate, Frodo and Sam fall down a mountain and almost get caught. In RotK, Aragorn and his army ride up on a plain. Where did the mountain go?

2) How did Shelob sting Frodo if he was wearing his mithril vest?

and

3) How come Frodo has a full set of fingers as he's writing his book in the Shire?

Oops.

Also, once Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas get to Pellenor, did you notice the shot of Legolas shooting arrows -- but where they forgot to cgi the arrows in ?

I do love how Aragorn and Gimli come by and kill Gothmog, incidentally saving Eowyn.

I always figured that b) Shelob stung lower than the vest and I know that c) he doesn't have all his fingers -- look again -- only three reach the top of the book. The index finger falls short.

Nutty, why is Aragorn lying in that speech? I'd thought it apparent that Sauron didn't have the ring, because then his army wouldn't actually be massing to fight. It wouldn't have to. So things weren't over.