just want Arwen to be more interesting, less irritating. Less tearstained, more bloodstained.

Totally. The only reason I am so anti-Arwen at Helm's Deep is because I balk at the idea of an Arwen and Eowyn jealousy stare-down and want nothing to distract from Eowyn getting to know/falling for Aragorn.

But see, here's where I am a book purist, because I want it to feel right that Aragorn should be wholly in love with Arwen. I don't want to be watching them and thinking "he should totally have gone for Eowyn instead!"

I liked that Arwen was more of a doer in FotR, even at the cost of Glorfindel and I'm a purist meanie. I regret that they chose to schmoopify her over the last two movies, but she doesn't bug me that much. I'm not in the LivMustDie!1! camp, because I thought she did fine with what she was given. Even Cate Blanchett couldn't really give me Galadriel although she did an excellent job, and she's one of the best actors of her generation. I think Arwen, treated as she deserves, was beyond the reach of our moviemakers.

I had this whitefonted, then I realized, uh, there's nothing spoily in here.

See, when I saw the kid, I thought they were about to transition into Ghan Buri Ghan. What actually happened, therefore, was a bit of a dissapointment. I also realized that they weren't going to give Frodo the Evenstar, even though that's where the idea for it came from in the first place t /grump

I spent the drive into work thinking about my main problem with Arwen, which was casting. It's the only casting decision I think was wrong, although many people say they can't get past Agent Elrond.

She was just nothing -- soft sighs and youthful but uncompelling pretty. I dunno -- give me Claudia Black, or something. Then I'm good.

And on top of the fact that Liv looks 16 in normal light, she has Cybil Shepherd lighting for every single shot, so she comes over younger. Not eternal, younger.

And as for RotK -- an absolute yes that tying her to the ring made little sense. I see what PJ was going for by making her Glorfindel, but not by this. To make us care more? Ratchet up the stakes? The world's about to end. She was gonna die anyway.

I think Arwen, treated as she deserves, was beyond the reach of our moviemakers.

I disagree, if only because they got so much else so right, and I don't think it could have been so much harder to get Arwen right, too.

many people say they can't get past Agent Elrond.

See, I adore Agent Elrond (and I adore Mitzi!Elrond even more). My Liv problem comes entirely from the way she sucked the life out of the screen, and I don't know if that was a casting issue or a directing choice.

Claudia Black as Arwen...gah. I'm broken.

Even though I ADORE Liv Tyler--I think she is luminous and beautiful. I liked her in FotR, somewhat less in TTT, and I hated what they did to her in RotK. Except the end where Aragorn grabbed her and kissed her. I think I gasped and then smiled at that. But then, that's my Aragorn lust talking. .

It's the only casting decision I think was wrong, although many people say they can't get past Agent Elrond.

Agreeing with ita here. Hugo Weaving is the one that most people I know mention as a bad casting choice, but I think he's great (though less so in TTT, but that's mostly how he's written). But Arwen, post-FOTR, just bugs me. Le sigh. (Except for the scene in TTT when Elrond is describing what will become of her after Aragorn's death--I get a real sense of melancholy and unbearable loss, which is nicely done.)

I saw a preview for Iron Jawed Angels and I realized how much Hillary Swank looks like she could be Hugo Weaving's kid. Also got more gravitas than Liv. I didn't actually think she would have been better until Wednesday morning.

I only had momentary problems with Weaving (inidividual lines, mostly). I did not like how Elrond would not leave. I think it would have helped with Arwen at the coronation for him to not be there. Also, his apparent joy(?) really undermined the whole thing with him and Arwen. I wanted more "I will not see her again until the end of the world" from him.