What? She killed 'em with mathematics. What else could it have been?

Jayne ,'Objects In Space'


Firefly Spoilers  

Discussion of all Firefly episodes, including "Trash", "The Message", "Heart of Gold", and any movie news.


Am-Chau Yarkona - Aug 05, 2003 5:57:17 am PDT #361 of 1424
I bop to Wittgenstein. -- Nutty

It's like a lot of class distinctions. It's total bullshit. There IS no substantive difference.

And yet, also like other class distinctions, it means a lot to those who are on one side or the other of the boundary.

Nutty, I'm sorry to admit it because it's not exactly what I'd like to think, but all your points are valid ones. Well said.


Nutty - Aug 05, 2003 5:59:06 am PDT #362 of 1424
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

Thanks, Am-Chau. I have liked Firefly a lot, and really loved some of the episodes. But HOG really made me doubtful, and not in a plotty, angsty way.


Allyson - Aug 05, 2003 6:06:11 am PDT #363 of 1424
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

I propose we barrage Fox with e-mails until a new series is commissioned.

That's a good idea! Then we can collect funds, take out a full page ad in Variety, schedule viewing parties all over the country, send 8,000 postcards to advertisers, FOX, SciFi...

Oh. Wait. We already did that.

Sorry, love. We did all we could, all we managed to get were some DVDs and the faint hope that there may be a movie someday.

I feel bad that a whole other country has to feel cheated.


Am-Chau Yarkona - Aug 05, 2003 6:10:39 am PDT #364 of 1424
I bop to Wittgenstein. -- Nutty

We did all we could, all we managed to get were some DVDs and the faint hope that there may be a movie someday.

Believe me, Allyson, when I say that I, for one, am glad you did what you could at the right time, before I could have known that it should be done. You tried. There is faint hope. That's all we can really ask for (edit: and expect to get. We can ask for the series back, for lots of movies, for a pony...)


Allyson - Aug 05, 2003 6:21:29 am PDT #365 of 1424
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

We can ask for the series back, for lots of movies, for a pony...

I just want a Zoe action figure with a gun that shoots real rice sized bullets and a Wash action figure that can fly my cat.


Vonnie K - Aug 05, 2003 6:29:08 am PDT #366 of 1424
Kiss me, my girl, before I'm sick.

I just watched Heart of Gold, which I downloaded to my laptop a while back. I was holding out, what with this being the last new Firefly for me until the movie and all. Surpirsingly enough, I enjoyed it more than I thought I would. I know a lot of people didn't like it--and frankly, it doesn't measure up to the structural complexity of OoG, the tight pacing of Ariel, superb characterizations in War Stories or the experimental brillanace of Objects In Space, but I felt there were still moments in the episode that made it feel Jossian to me. The dialog between Kaylee and Wash Allyson quoted above, for example. Jayne and his hilarious body languages (the rather adorable rapport he seemed to have developed with his lady of the night, the combing of her hair, etc.) Wash and Zoe's conversation about having a child. And there were genuinely nice moments between Mal and Nandi, despite the banality of some of the dialog. I liked the actress who played Nandi quite a bit, but then I was predisposed to like her since I thought she was smashing in her guest spots in CSI (as the dominatrix Lady Heather.)

The problem was, the central story had very little that was original. The villain was one-dimensional, perpetuating annoyingly cliched misogynistic claptrap. And I feel hopelessly muddled about just what the hell TPTB were going with the concept of companionship (companion-hood?) vs. whoredom.

As for Inara, I felt bad for her when she was huddled in the room crying. Which is more than I felt for her most of the time. I still think Morena, gorgeous as she is, has very little on-screen chemistry with Nate Fillion, which hurts the 'ship. (Also, her line delivery still bugs me.) I thought Melinda Clarke who played Nandi had way more sparks with Fillion.

Edited to fix italics.


Am-Chau Yarkona - Aug 05, 2003 6:34:58 am PDT #367 of 1424
I bop to Wittgenstein. -- Nutty

I just want a Zoe action figure with a gun that shoots real rice sized bullets and a Wash action figure that can fly my cat.

And a Kaylee one that will have sex under my computer and then make it work far better than I ever could.

Oh, and a Jayne action figure, complete with hats.


Fay - Aug 05, 2003 6:53:12 am PDT #368 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

Have you noticed how only the male characters got any nooky? Kaylee talked about it, but didn't partake. So only brutes (Jayne) and sad, conflicted men who need sexual healin' (Mal) can partake of freely offered, no-strings sex. Oy.

Fair point for this episode. Would you say that's true of the show as a whole?

it deals textually with sex and power roles, and it fails terribly in its job.

I'd agree with that. The blowjob-on-the-balcony sequence was heavy handed and jarring and, ultimately, illogical. The whole patriarchy V feisty whores plotline was poorly done.

Actually, it was in the middle of this episode that I was suddenly reminded of all the icky things I've heard out of M.E., about sex and gender. How Tim came here, and attempted to argue that women don't have the same heart of darkness that men do; Tim's story of talking with Joss circa Angel S3 and saying, "Darla came back in a box; how about we put something in her box?"

Now that's all kinds of shitty. And disappointing.


Fay - Aug 05, 2003 6:56:53 am PDT #369 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

I just want a Zoe action figure with a gun that shoots real rice sized bullets and a Wash action figure that can fly my cat.

weeps with laughter. envisions own cat and expression of profound surprise. laughs some more.

And a Kaylee one that will have sex under my computer and then make it work far better than I ever could.

Oh, and a Jayne action figure, complete with hats.

YES!!!!!

And a cute little Simon action figure, with medical accessories and optional crazyspaceincest accessory River figure. He'd have to have the sex with Kaylee under the computer. But probably he'd need some alcofrol first, bless him

And Book! With a bible and a gun and scary action hair!


UTTAD - Aug 05, 2003 6:59:07 am PDT #370 of 1424
Strawberry disappointment.

Have you noticed how only the male characters got any nooky?

And previous to this episode the only character to have sex was female. So what?

I tend to think of the difference between a Companion and a whore is that of a soldier and a mercenary.