I'm supposed to deliver you to the Master now. There's this whole deal where I get to be immortal. Are you cool with that?

Xander ,'Lessons'


Firefly Spoilers  

Discussion of all Firefly episodes, including "Trash", "The Message", "Heart of Gold", and any movie news.


Allyson - Aug 05, 2003 6:21:29 am PDT #365 of 1424
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

We can ask for the series back, for lots of movies, for a pony...

I just want a Zoe action figure with a gun that shoots real rice sized bullets and a Wash action figure that can fly my cat.


Vonnie K - Aug 05, 2003 6:29:08 am PDT #366 of 1424
Kiss me, my girl, before I'm sick.

I just watched Heart of Gold, which I downloaded to my laptop a while back. I was holding out, what with this being the last new Firefly for me until the movie and all. Surpirsingly enough, I enjoyed it more than I thought I would. I know a lot of people didn't like it--and frankly, it doesn't measure up to the structural complexity of OoG, the tight pacing of Ariel, superb characterizations in War Stories or the experimental brillanace of Objects In Space, but I felt there were still moments in the episode that made it feel Jossian to me. The dialog between Kaylee and Wash Allyson quoted above, for example. Jayne and his hilarious body languages (the rather adorable rapport he seemed to have developed with his lady of the night, the combing of her hair, etc.) Wash and Zoe's conversation about having a child. And there were genuinely nice moments between Mal and Nandi, despite the banality of some of the dialog. I liked the actress who played Nandi quite a bit, but then I was predisposed to like her since I thought she was smashing in her guest spots in CSI (as the dominatrix Lady Heather.)

The problem was, the central story had very little that was original. The villain was one-dimensional, perpetuating annoyingly cliched misogynistic claptrap. And I feel hopelessly muddled about just what the hell TPTB were going with the concept of companionship (companion-hood?) vs. whoredom.

As for Inara, I felt bad for her when she was huddled in the room crying. Which is more than I felt for her most of the time. I still think Morena, gorgeous as she is, has very little on-screen chemistry with Nate Fillion, which hurts the 'ship. (Also, her line delivery still bugs me.) I thought Melinda Clarke who played Nandi had way more sparks with Fillion.

Edited to fix italics.


Am-Chau Yarkona - Aug 05, 2003 6:34:58 am PDT #367 of 1424
I bop to Wittgenstein. -- Nutty

I just want a Zoe action figure with a gun that shoots real rice sized bullets and a Wash action figure that can fly my cat.

And a Kaylee one that will have sex under my computer and then make it work far better than I ever could.

Oh, and a Jayne action figure, complete with hats.


Fay - Aug 05, 2003 6:53:12 am PDT #368 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

Have you noticed how only the male characters got any nooky? Kaylee talked about it, but didn't partake. So only brutes (Jayne) and sad, conflicted men who need sexual healin' (Mal) can partake of freely offered, no-strings sex. Oy.

Fair point for this episode. Would you say that's true of the show as a whole?

it deals textually with sex and power roles, and it fails terribly in its job.

I'd agree with that. The blowjob-on-the-balcony sequence was heavy handed and jarring and, ultimately, illogical. The whole patriarchy V feisty whores plotline was poorly done.

Actually, it was in the middle of this episode that I was suddenly reminded of all the icky things I've heard out of M.E., about sex and gender. How Tim came here, and attempted to argue that women don't have the same heart of darkness that men do; Tim's story of talking with Joss circa Angel S3 and saying, "Darla came back in a box; how about we put something in her box?"

Now that's all kinds of shitty. And disappointing.


Fay - Aug 05, 2003 6:56:53 am PDT #369 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

I just want a Zoe action figure with a gun that shoots real rice sized bullets and a Wash action figure that can fly my cat.

weeps with laughter. envisions own cat and expression of profound surprise. laughs some more.

And a Kaylee one that will have sex under my computer and then make it work far better than I ever could.

Oh, and a Jayne action figure, complete with hats.

YES!!!!!

And a cute little Simon action figure, with medical accessories and optional crazyspaceincest accessory River figure. He'd have to have the sex with Kaylee under the computer. But probably he'd need some alcofrol first, bless him

And Book! With a bible and a gun and scary action hair!


UTTAD - Aug 05, 2003 6:59:07 am PDT #370 of 1424
Strawberry disappointment.

Have you noticed how only the male characters got any nooky?

And previous to this episode the only character to have sex was female. So what?

I tend to think of the difference between a Companion and a whore is that of a soldier and a mercenary.


Nutty - Aug 05, 2003 6:59:41 am PDT #371 of 1424
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

> Would you say that's true of the show as a whole?

No, that's not so for, say OOG. Kaylee was all about the no-strings nooky, and that was cool. Which is why it stood out so much in HOG.

Sometimes I feel like the wet blanket of the fandom. Then again, if I were bitching about the writing of, I don't know, Stripperella, it would like chiding a mathlete for doing sums. We all know M. E. pretty well, through their collective works, and we know they can do both better and less obnoxiously insulting to 1/2 of the human population.


DXMachina - Aug 05, 2003 7:03:43 am PDT #372 of 1424
You always do this. We get tipsy, and you take advantage of my love of the scientific method.

but I felt there were still moments in the episode that made it feel Jossian to me. The dialog between Kaylee and Wash Allyson quoted above, for example. Jayne and his hilarious body languages (the rather adorable rapport he seemed to have developed with his lady of the night, the combing of her hair, etc.) Wash and Zoe's conversation about having a child. And there were genuinely nice moments between Mal and Nandi,

I agree about those. I thought that Jayne was well written in the ep. The Wash - Kaylee dialogue was funny. I would have liked Wash - Zoe conversation more if they hadn't tried to make him look stupid later on. Apart from the scene with Kaylee, Wash isn't portrayed very favorably in the episode.

I thought Melinda Clarke who played Nandi had way more sparks with Fillion.

Yup. I had no problem believing that Mal would wind up with her. Imagine her as Inara. It doesn't solve the problems with the concept of Companions, but at least she'd be a bit more believable.


Fay - Aug 05, 2003 7:04:45 am PDT #373 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

No, I think your comments are all very fair and reasonable, Nutty, fwiw.

Do you think it would have been more believable for Mal not to have The Sex? Or for Kaylee to have The Sex?

I never did read the Buffista rewrite of Spiral, but I'm getting the feeling that we should rewrite the script for Heart of Gold and see whether we could make it better, given the basic outline.

eta I'm misremembering, I think; why do you think Wash was portrayed stupidly throughout the episode? I totally agree that the business with the ship was dumb as a box of rocks, but up until that point I don't remember him being dumb. Remind me?


DXMachina - Aug 05, 2003 7:11:17 am PDT #374 of 1424
You always do this. We get tipsy, and you take advantage of my love of the scientific method.

I never did read the Buffista rewrite of Spiral, but I'm getting the feeling that we should rewrite the script for Heart of Gold and see whether we could make it better, given the basic outline.

Hah! I had the same thought earlier this morning. The problem is different, though. "Spiral" was a kind of connecting ep, with way too much exposition, so a lot of the rewrite was mainly to smooth over the dialogue, and cut down on the exposition. The plot wasn't really touched. Much more about editing than truly rewriting, if you get what I mean. With HoG, the problems are mostly with the plot. You can improve some of the characterization, but you'd really have to change the basic plot a lot to get it to work (IMO).

No, I think your comments are all very fair and reasonable, Nutty, fwiw.

Heh, you should've been there when she actually watched the ep. I got to hear her reaction first hand. There was animation, and foul language and stuff.