Tell me more good stuff about me.

Kaylee ,'The Message'


Firefly Spoilers  

Discussion of all Firefly episodes, including "Trash", "The Message", "Heart of Gold", and any movie news.


Fay - Aug 04, 2003 2:45:36 pm PDT #346 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

We are asked to believe that Mal, Zoe, and Wash would leave Serenity open and unguarded overnight when they are expecting to be attacked.

winces

Yeah, okay, that jarred with me too. I'd been airbrushing over that in my recollection of the ep, but -- yeah. That was bad. Also inexplicable -- I can buy Jayne spending the night gleefully wallowing in shaggage, but I'd totally have expected Kaylee to stay in her own quarters rather than a tumbledown house. Probably Zoe and Wash too.

Then Wash manages to trap himself in the engine room when he knows tha Mal needs him.

That was also bad, although I wasn't conscious of him being dumb otherwise in the ep, and I did enjoy the scene between Wash and Zoe.

eta

Still, I did enjoy it. Not one of my favourite episodes, because the dialogue didn't sparkle as much as in other eps, and the plot itself wasn't particularly sophisticated, but the actors are splendid, and they pulled me along. And again the details of set and FX were good.


Consuela - Aug 04, 2003 2:49:57 pm PDT #347 of 1424
We are Buffistas. This isn't our first apocalypse. -- Pix

I think Consuela was (forgive me if I've misunderstood) saying that this comes across as the work of an inexperienced writer, somebody who's not at the top of their game, and that the lack of other credits cited at IMDB would back her up here.

Yes, this. That's what I meant. I understand it is the first effort by one of Joss' assistants.

I agree, it's not dreck, but the fact remains that it could have been an episode in a half-dozen other series with only minimal changes in plot or dialog. Didn't feel like an ME production at all without the twist, and I appreciate Fay's fanwanking but 12 episodes in, don't you think we should know the difference between a Companion and a whore? Because it's not made clear. We shouldn't have to work that hard on such a fundamental cultural issue.

This is not to say there weren't good bits in the episode, because there were. But the overall plot left me cold. We'll have to disagree on the issue of Inara crying; I felt like the writer went back to the same well. ::shrugs::


DCJensen - Aug 04, 2003 2:55:52 pm PDT #348 of 1424
All is well that ends in pizza.

I was not so much attacking Consuela's viewpoint as pointing out other ways to see the points that she brought up. We differ, and there have been good points made.

Plus? I don't know if it might be a factor, but they were given two episodes extra to do, and then there were a lot of negotiations and behind-the scenes negotiating going on. Perhaps a little more time and the threat of canellation didn't lend itself to rewrites, reshoots and all over energy that less of the crap flung at the production would have engendered.


Fay - Aug 04, 2003 2:56:48 pm PDT #349 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

Bloody Fox.


DCJensen - Aug 04, 2003 2:57:39 pm PDT #350 of 1424
All is well that ends in pizza.

More the WB, IIRC.


DXMachina - Aug 04, 2003 3:09:54 pm PDT #351 of 1424
You always do this. We get tipsy, and you take advantage of my love of the scientific method.

How was the WB involved? Firefly was produced by Fox and aired on Fox. It might've had a chance on the WB.


Griffyn - Aug 04, 2003 3:10:35 pm PDT #352 of 1424
A person's concepts should exceed their vocabulary, or what's a metaphor?

What I got out of this episode was a call back to Kaylee's question to Inara about the Companion rules on dating. Inara said 'It's complicated.' Well, we find out here that Inara doesn't like complications. This leads me to believe that Inara left her home because she fell in love with someone and that's what brings her onto Serenity. And she figured that with Mal being the way he was when he was getting things started, there was no way she could make that mistake again. But then she got to know Mal. And started to love him. And the whole cycle continues until Inara learn to quit running and face reality. Make her own choices for good or for bad and live with them. This is why I believed Inara breaking down. That was the moment she realized that she loved Mal and the whole cycle was starting all over again. Everything she's running from, coming back to haunt her with just a different face.

I had lots more to say about the Ep, especially concerning companions and their place in the 'verse, but Fay just said it all for me. Bless Fay.


DCJensen - Aug 04, 2003 3:17:55 pm PDT #353 of 1424
All is well that ends in pizza.

You're right DXM, IDRC


Griffyn - Aug 04, 2003 8:32:18 pm PDT #354 of 1424
A person's concepts should exceed their vocabulary, or what's a metaphor?

Wow, I expected more of a discussion (agreement or not) about my Inara theories. Must have hit the UKers just as they were going to bed or something. Maybe I'll return from tomorrow's outing to find all sorts of elaboration. Or maybe not, I suppose time will tell.


Allyson - Aug 04, 2003 9:03:23 pm PDT #355 of 1424
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

"Tell me I'm pretty?"

"Were I not wed I would take you in a manly fashion."

"Because I'm pretty?"

"Because you're pretty."

I've only read this, and not seen it. But I can hear it and see their facial expressions and how they play it, imagine it all because it's exactly the conversation these characters would have. They're all sort melty in your mouth individual truffles in a freshly opened box and some are rolled in chocolate sprinkles or finely chopped hazelnuts, filled with surprising combinations. You bite slowly into each one, expect cherry or vanilla creme, and get raspberry liquer, instead, and it's better than you thought it would be, but the chocolate goodness is expected, and whatever's inside is a gift.

Except Inara, who is carob filled with a marshmallow peep.