This is my boat. They're part of my crew. No one's getting left. Best you get used to that.

Mal ,'Ariel'


Firefly Spoilers  

Discussion of all Firefly episodes, including "Trash", "The Message", "Heart of Gold", and any movie news.


Fay - Aug 04, 2003 12:29:59 pm PDT #336 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

Right, I've said it before and it appears that I'm saying it again: I like Inara. I really do. I was gutted for her in this ep. I appreciate that YMMV wrt the whole 'Companion' concept, and I also appreciate that the viewing order y'all got in the US didn't introduce the characters nearly as well as Serenity did. Nevertheless, I really bloody like Inara, and I like the way Morena plays her.

For some reason I had an inchoate sense of dread watching this episode. Really not sure why, other than that the whole 7 Samurai thing seemed doomed to end unhappily. In the end it all turned out reasonably okay, though. Well, sad, but I'd been afraid somebody might be broken, somehow. I'm not sure quite what. And I suppose Inara was a little broken, but not in the way I'd half-feared.

Very much liked the first glimpse of the whorehouse and the horses and the speeder thing. Very Star Wars. Oh, but the opening ship scene was delicious. I love Serenity very much indeed, and I love the informality of people talking as they make ramen or whatever -- 'course, I've been sharing accomodation with friends, family or strangers all my life, so that's maybe part of it. It feels real. Using the table to practice manly gunplay stuff, and the remark about the place settings, and the snarkage about emergencies in people's pants -- it was all very nice.

I liked the whorehouse a lot. And I was pleased they had boys as well as girls, and I was pleased everything was covered in solar panel sheeting. Lovely. Jayne was entirely splendid in his every scene, and continued to crack me up with his talk of his John Thomas. Lovely.

I was also particularly fond of:

"Tell me I'm pretty?"

"Were I not wed I would take you in a manly fashion."

"Because I'm pretty?"

"Because you're pretty."

Bless Kaylee. And I'm glad they didn't make more of the Simon/Kaylee thing, actually -- it might have started to feel a little too much, and it wasn't the point, and Simon was in Doctor Mode. River made me laugh, bless her. Zoe was her fabulous self. Book was good -- sorry there wasn't more Book, to some extent, but not enough time, and I did enjoy his interactions with the whores. They were a likeable bunch, the whores, and for all that they were spear carriers (or, more accurately, pistol carriers) there was still a reasonable sense of them as being individuals, I think. Petalline was cool.

Mal. I do like Mal exceedingly. "You're my kind of stupid" -- very Mal Reynolds. And I'm glad that he did have the sex, because if he'd abstained from the sex for no bloody reason it would have been too cheesy and frankly incredible. (Which is to say, precisely what most shows would have had him do. "No no, gorgeous and feisty woman of substance who runs this fine whorehouse, is indebted to me and evidently fancies me -- I cannot have The Sex with you, despite the fact that it's a good long while since I got my end away, for I have big adolescent Unresolved Sexual Tension with the beautiful hooker who constantly puts me in my place and tells me our relationship is professional -- and not in the sex industry way. So despite having no reason to think she fancies me, I must pine away, pretend I am not a big manly man with bunches of testosterone and a space monkey in sore need of a spanking, and turn away your very sincere offer of The Sex." Pah.) So, yes - glad he had The Sex, believed it. (And loved the fact that whatchamacaller said "I've been waiting for you to kiss me since the moment I showed you my guns". My kind of Madame, yes indeed. Glad also that it evidently hurt Inara a lot -- not in a yahboosucks way, but rather because it was touching and a lovely character note, I thought. And I know some of you will be all "dumb bitch, it's entirely her own stupid fault, if she wanted to bed him why didn't she just DO something about it rather than being all stupidly standoffish" about it, but I have a big old glass house situation going on there, so I'm not so much with the stone throwing. Owch. Yes. Owch. Poor cow.

Did I mention how much I loved Jayne all the way through this ep? I really did. And I loved that he had a gun lodged between him and the blonde when they were all snuggled up. Cute.

I also loved the fact that Kaylee knew immediately that there was something wrong with her ship when they went aboard. That was cool.

I was terribly worried about Zoe and Book during the shootout. They didn't seem to have any cover. It fretted me.

Now, what are we to make of the rampant chauvenism of The Baddy and his mates? And what are we to make of the roles of Companions in the 'Verse? And of women? I feel like I need to sit down and think a spell about all this. The big rousing (as 'twere) speech about putting the damn women in their place, and the whole 'suck my cock' thing -- effective and disturbing, and it makes me feel that I need to try to fathom out the various contradictions between Core planets and the rim, between Independents and Alliance, and all that stuff. Evidently no concept of either Companion-as-high-class-and-respectable-profession here -- not that they were Companions, granted, but is it possible to have Companions seen as respectable people, priestesses even, and also have all other women seen as chattle? I don't think so. And Mal's view of gender politics encompasses women as different-but-equal, in terms of how he relates to Zoe and Kaylee; he's very troubled by the whole sex-for-cash thing, equating Companions with whores regardless. And yet other service industries don't seem to be a big shame thing, so why is the sex industry? If it's not about inherent inferiority of women, and about -- oh, I don't know. There seem to be a number of paradigms at work, and I don't feel up to thinking it through, but I think it probably needs thinking through.

To sum up: very good episode, once again. And gorgeous frocks.


UTTAD - Aug 04, 2003 12:35:33 pm PDT #337 of 1424
Strawberry disappointment.

It's handy you type out all my thoughts for me. Cheers!


Fay - Aug 04, 2003 12:36:58 pm PDT #338 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

It's handy you type out all my thoughts for me. Cheers!

What can I tell you? I'm a mind reading genius. I just have problems eating ice planets.


DCJensen - Aug 04, 2003 12:48:19 pm PDT #339 of 1424
All is well that ends in pizza.

I think that with all the variations of humankind spread throughout the galaxy, certain types will start to pool.

Atavistic misogynists and their apparently similar minded women were more prevalent in the town than the whores thought.

But then, since in general women are not treated that way in the Firefly-verse, it was troubling enough to the Serenity crew to stand and fight. It almost seemed a dirty-little-secret in the 'verse that yes, it does exist, they had heard of such a thing, but that it was rare.


Consuela - Aug 04, 2003 1:09:36 pm PDT #340 of 1424
We are Buffistas. This isn't our first apocalypse. -- Pix

See, now, I didn't much like Heart of Gold. I didn't hate it while I was watching, but it didn't have that patented ME spark to it. There was nothing in the story or the characterizations that made it an ME episode, or a Firefly episode (with the possible exception of Jayne). Could have been a Magnificent 7 episode, frankly.

If the planet is populated by misogynists who fixate on fatherhood issues, why are there male whores? The male members of the community would never allow for the women to visit the boys for fear of cuckolding.

If Companions are priestesses (as stated by Nandi in her conversation with Mal) why are they treated like whores? Why on earth did they name the brothel Heart of Gold? Bad enough the episode was named it. Yes there were boys but they weren't in evidence at all. Nobody was in evidence except for Nandi.

I liked Inara's response to Mal when she found out he slept with Nandi. But the crying scene (a) was a ripoff of the scene where Willow finds out Xander slept with Faith; and (b) completely undercut Inara as a mature individual. She's a sex worker, not a fifteen-year-old high school virgin. She shouldn't respond the same as Willow to the same stimulus, and it makes the ME team look silly to have her do so. If she had to respond, I'd have preferred anger rather than self-pity.

This episode made Serenity's entire crew look incredibly stupid compared to their sharpness of not two weeks previous. It was hardly the same team that pulled off the job in Trash.

I was saddened and annoyed. I think it's meaningful that the IMDB listing for the writer has no other credits. I'm sure things would have gotten better, but I think Heart of Gold is hands-down the worst episode of the series.


Jars - Aug 04, 2003 1:33:02 pm PDT #341 of 1424

So, Heart of Gold is definitely not my favourite episode of the series, but there is much to love about it.

Every little bit of Wash/Kaylee interaction was a gem. I also loved the little snippet of Zoe and Wash discussing kids, and that it's Zoe who wants kids, and Wash that wants to wait.

I adored how excited Jayne was by the prospect of 'getting sexed up'. Like a kid in a candy store he was. And how he sleeps with his gun in his hand. Speaking of getting sexed up, Mal got his end away! Nandy was so worthy of him too. She's his kind of stupid, oh yes. I knew she was doomed from the start though, as Fay said, there was a Seven Samurai vibe going on.

Morena Baccarin was just fabulous, I thought. Now I really want to know why Inara left the core to work on the rim, and why she's so afraid of getting close to anyone. I also loved when she kissed Simon on the cheek, it was just an adorable little moment.

I think her response to the Mal/Nandy sex was more complex than the Willow response. As she said to Mal, part of her job is to be relaxed about sex. She's not supposed to get emotional, and when she saw what had just happened, she realised just how deep her emotions for Mal went, and that if she wanted to keep an emotional distance, she was going to have to leave Serenity. Much to be upset about, methinks, though why she feels the need to remain emotionally distanced, we'll never know, I'm guessing.


Fay - Aug 04, 2003 1:52:41 pm PDT #342 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

I'd agree that it wasn't a distinctively ME piece of work -- I think that's why I was braced for something to go horribly pear-shaped, actually; the 7 Samurai thing is a cliche, and so far they've taken standard tropes and served them with a twist. There wasn't a twist with this episode. I do think that the smart thing to do would definitely have been to get the hell out of dodge, and for the most part Mal and co do go for the smart thing -- which is why his initial response of "We run away" rang truer than "We stay and fight". But then Mal does have that whole love-of-a-good-fight thing going on, so... but, yeah, I'll agree that

why are there male whores? The male members of the community would never allow for the women to visit the boys for fear of cuckolding.

I rather wish Kaylee's curiosity had led to us finding out, but from Nandi's words about them being "sly" and offering their services to Mal, I understood them to be there for The Big Gay Sex, rather than for the benefit of the respectable women.

If Companions are priestesses (as stated by Nandi in her conversation with Mal) why are they treated like whores?

Companions aren't priestesses, though, and the girls at the Heart of Gold (and indeed Nandi) aren't Companions. They are whores, all of them -- even Nandi, who is a Beauty Companion School dropout after one dulcimer lesson too damn many. What Nandi said, and I'm sure Inara's mentioned this before too, is that Priestess is a rank that Companions can attain; Companion Houses have a House Priestess. Seems to me (fanwanking cheerfully) that the Companion role is supposed to be sacred, with the rituals and so forth all key along with the sex; rather than having a Madame, Companions have a Priestess. Whether there's actually a specific deity involved (Ishtar, presumably, or someone similar) I'm not sure, but it seems to be more elaborate and meaningful than random shaggage. (Not entirely unlike this kind of ideology?. There's a long tradition of Priestess Prostitutes which is pretty fascinating, actually:

In addition to dancing, these women honor the dieties and convey their divine female energy to male worshippers through ritual sexual intercourse. Traditionally, devadasis were highly respected; considered married to the gods, they were accorded special privileges (e.g., the right to an inheritance) denied other women. Some were skilled and well educated, and these entertained only wealthy sponsors. Though India repeatedly passed laws prohibiting temple dancing and temple prostitution throughout the 20th century, thousands of devadasis continue the practice today.

Actually, I'm finding this fascinating reading. The Firefly verse take on Companionship seems to blend elements of the Priestess Prostitutes and the Japanese Oiran and Tayuu, and indeed Geishas. It's interesting. I wish we got the chance to find out about the rest of the 'verse.

Sometimes in the show we see Inara treated with respect because of her Companion status, and other times with contempt; I think this is just an indication that out on the Rim not everyone knows what Companions are, but they do know what whores are. The father in Jaynestown thought he was just buying an expensive shag for his son, whereas the chap in Shindig was buying the services of a Companion. In each case Inara was being objectified, though. Hmm. The planet where Nandi built the Heart of Gold would definitely equate Companion with Whore unquestioningly.

But the crying scene (a) was a ripoff of the scene where Willow finds out Xander slept with Faith

YMMV. I didn't remember Allyson's pose in that scene, so it didn't ping with me at all. If there were dialogue or action I could see it being a ripoff, but a scene with her sitting on the floor weeping -- there's not that many ways you can film this, really, and it's not so distinctive and original a way of doing it that repetition feels like a ripoff to me.

(b) completely undercut Inara as a mature individual. She's a sex worker, not a fifteen-year-old high school virgin. She shouldn't respond the same as Willow to the same stimulus

Hmm. Okay, you're probably right. I'm happy enough to buy into the whole Madam Butterfly thing, but this is maybe me being a sap. Probably not really worth articulating why it works for me, because if it doesn't work for you then that's fair enough.


DCJensen - Aug 04, 2003 2:16:56 pm PDT #343 of 1424
All is well that ends in pizza.

Consuela, you have a lot of arguments against the ep here, I hope you don't mind, but I'd like to offer alternate interpretations of the main points you have made.

If the planet is populated by misogynists who fixate on fatherhood issues, why are there male whores? The male members of the community would never allow for the women to visit the boys for fear of cuckolding.

Well, the whole planet may not, but that comunity had a good three or four dozen that may not have been all misogynist as "morality" driven.

It also could be that the populace at large was filled with better people who knew nothing or only rumors of the entire incident.

Just like landing in Antartica at a second Stargate would make you believe it was an ice planet, so would defying this jerk lead you to wonder if the whole planet was like that. one small group of data can't cover the whole picture. It's likely a plant like that had no core government, or a weak one for the whores to appeal to.

If Companions are priestesses (as stated by Nandi in her conversation with Mal) why are they treated like whores? Why on earth did they name the brothel Heart of Gold? Bad enough the episode was named it. Yes there were boys but they weren't in evidence at all. Nobody was in evidence except for Nandi.

These were not Companions. they were whores. They called themselves whores, and the characters made note that the companions and the owner had a falling out.

I liked Inara's response to Mal when she found out he slept with Nandi. But the crying scene (a) was a ripoff of the scene where Willow finds out Xander slept with Faith;

I guess I disagree here, too. Ripoff is not really the right word. The scene is a quick way of showing the distress of the character. They only have 48 minutes you know. They could have gone for the old, much more clichéd "cry on a frined's shoulder" scene.

and (b) completely undercut Inara as a mature individual. She's a sex worker, not a fifteen-year-old high school virgin. She shouldn't respond the same as Willow to the same stimulus, and it makes the ME team look silly to have her do so. If she had to respond, I'd have preferred anger rather than self-pity.

I see Inara as a very torn woman. She is respected and good at her job. But she's also human, and there are other reasons for her not to be in the core planets. she appears to have her reasons for being out there on the rim, yet complains about being there. She is torn and wept for her inabilty to reconcile her feelings. Adults (of either sex) get overwhelmed by their boxes. Maturity is not stoicism, and many people never outgrow the need to shed tears in frustration. I wish we had more eps to find out where it is going.

This episode made Serenity's entire crew look incredibly stupid compared to their sharpness of not two weeks previous. It was hardly the same team that pulled off the job in Trash.

Well, dealing with a little less of a technological society with a clear floor plan, plus the relationships going on? I thought they did damn well in planning with what they found.

I was saddened and annoyed. I think it's meaningful that the IMDB listing for the writer has no other credits.

Or that the IMDB is not the end-all and Be-all of information. it was written by Brett Matthews.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are other interpretations that what you have stated, and I will have to disagree with your harsh on the ep. The worst? could be. But it's not in the category of full-on dreck.


Fay - Aug 04, 2003 2:39:53 pm PDT #344 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

Or that the IMDB is not the end-all and Be-all of information. it was written by Brett Matthews.

Aye, but over at IMDB the only thing he's credited with is this episode. I think perhaps you read a little quickly and misunderstood the sentence: Consuela was (forgive me if I've misunderstood) saying that this comes across as the work of an inexperienced writer, somebody who's not at the top of their game, and that the lack of other credits cited at IMDB would back her up here. Not that the writer wasn't listed at IMDB.


DXMachina - Aug 04, 2003 2:42:01 pm PDT #345 of 1424
You always do this. We get tipsy, and you take advantage of my love of the scientific method.

This episode made Serenity's entire crew look incredibly stupid compared to their sharpness of not two weeks previous. It was hardly the same team that pulled off the job in Trash.

Well, dealing with a little less of a technological society with a clear floor plan, plus the relationships going on? I thought they did damn well in planning with what they found.

Sorry, Daniel, I'm totally with Suela on this (and pretty much everything else about the episode). We are asked to believe that Mal, Zoe, and Wash would leave Serenity open and unguarded overnight when they are expecting to be attacked. Then Wash manages to trap himself in the engine room when he knows that Mal needs him. He just got dumber and dumber as the episode went on. That was really disappointing, because Wash may be untrained, but he's bever been stupid.

I was saddened and annoyed. I think it's meaningful that the IMDB listing for the writer has no other credits.

Or that the IMDB is not the end-all and Be-all of information. it was written by Brett Matthews.

The writer *is* new. Allyson mentioned that he was Joss's former assistant. I thought the characterizations were poor, the dialog not up to par, and as both Suela and Fay noted, he took a standard western cliche, and didn't do anything with it, which is unforgiveable in an ME show.

Evidently no concept of either Companion-as-high-class-and-respectable-profession here -- not that they were Companions, granted, but is it possible to have Companions seen as respectable people, priestesses even, and also have all other women seen as chattle? I don't think so.

We saw a bit of the same thing at the end of "Shindig", which was set on Persephone, a planet that's supposed to be a bit more sophisticated than most of the other planets out on the fringe:

 ATHERTON: You set this up, whore. After I 
bought and paid for you. I should have uglied you up 
so no one else'd want you.

Well, the whole planet may not, but that comunity had a good three or four dozen that may not have been all misogynist as "morality" driven.

Are these the same folks who watched Burgess have a whore give him a blow job on a balcony overlooking the town square? Because that's an awfully funny view of morality. Plus the guy apparently owns the whole moon:

 NANDI: And you see the way we live here. 
Go into town, it's the same. Some places come up 
rustic 'cause they ain't got more'n the basics. Rance 
Burgess has money enough to build a city, a real 
community. He keeps people living like this so he can 
play cowboy, be the one with the best toys. Turned 
this moon into a gorram theme park. Someone stands 
up to him... He means to burn me out.