Consuela, you have a lot of arguments against the ep here, I hope you don't mind, but I'd like to offer alternate interpretations of the main points you have made.

If the planet is populated by misogynists who fixate on fatherhood issues, why are there male whores? The male members of the community would never allow for the women to visit the boys for fear of cuckolding.

Well, the whole planet may not, but that comunity had a good three or four dozen that may not have been all misogynist as "morality" driven.

It also could be that the populace at large was filled with better people who knew nothing or only rumors of the entire incident.

Just like landing in Antartica at a second Stargate would make you believe it was an ice planet, so would defying this jerk lead you to wonder if the whole planet was like that. one small group of data can't cover the whole picture. It's likely a plant like that had no core government, or a weak one for the whores to appeal to.

If Companions are priestesses (as stated by Nandi in her conversation with Mal) why are they treated like whores? Why on earth did they name the brothel Heart of Gold? Bad enough the episode was named it. Yes there were boys but they weren't in evidence at all. Nobody was in evidence except for Nandi.

These were not Companions. they were whores. They called themselves whores, and the characters made note that the companions and the owner had a falling out.

I liked Inara's response to Mal when she found out he slept with Nandi. But the crying scene (a) was a ripoff of the scene where Willow finds out Xander slept with Faith;

I guess I disagree here, too. Ripoff is not really the right word. The scene is a quick way of showing the distress of the character. They only have 48 minutes you know. They could have gone for the old, much more clichéd "cry on a frined's shoulder" scene.

and (b) completely undercut Inara as a mature individual. She's a sex worker, not a fifteen-year-old high school virgin. She shouldn't respond the same as Willow to the same stimulus, and it makes the ME team look silly to have her do so. If she had to respond, I'd have preferred anger rather than self-pity.

I see Inara as a very torn woman. She is respected and good at her job. But she's also human, and there are other reasons for her not to be in the core planets. she appears to have her reasons for being out there on the rim, yet complains about being there. She is torn and wept for her inabilty to reconcile her feelings. Adults (of either sex) get overwhelmed by their boxes. Maturity is not stoicism, and many people never outgrow the need to shed tears in frustration. I wish we had more eps to find out where it is going.

This episode made Serenity's entire crew look incredibly stupid compared to their sharpness of not two weeks previous. It was hardly the same team that pulled off the job in Trash.

Well, dealing with a little less of a technological society with a clear floor plan, plus the relationships going on? I thought they did damn well in planning with what they found.

I was saddened and annoyed. I think it's meaningful that the IMDB listing for the writer has no other credits.

Or that the IMDB is not the end-all and Be-all of information. it was written by Brett Matthews.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are other interpretations that what you have stated, and I will have to disagree with your harsh on the ep. The worst? could be. But it's not in the category of full-on dreck.

Or that the IMDB is not the end-all and Be-all of information. it was written by Brett Matthews.

Aye, but over at IMDB the only thing he's credited with is this episode. I think perhaps you read a little quickly and misunderstood the sentence: Consuela was (forgive me if I've misunderstood) saying that this comes across as the work of an inexperienced writer, somebody who's not at the top of their game, and that the lack of other credits cited at IMDB would back her up here. Not that the writer wasn't listed at IMDB.

This episode made Serenity's entire crew look incredibly stupid compared to their sharpness of not two weeks previous. It was hardly the same team that pulled off the job in Trash.

Well, dealing with a little less of a technological society with a clear floor plan, plus the relationships going on? I thought they did damn well in planning with what they found.

Sorry, Daniel, I'm totally with Suela on this (and pretty much everything else about the episode). We are asked to believe that Mal, Zoe, and Wash would leave Serenity open and unguarded overnight when they are expecting to be attacked. Then Wash manages to trap himself in the engine room when he knows that Mal needs him. He just got dumber and dumber as the episode went on. That was really disappointing, because Wash may be untrained, but he's bever been stupid.

I was saddened and annoyed. I think it's meaningful that the IMDB listing for the writer has no other credits.

Or that the IMDB is not the end-all and Be-all of information. it was written by Brett Matthews.

The writer *is* new. Allyson mentioned that he was Joss's former assistant. I thought the characterizations were poor, the dialog not up to par, and as both Suela and Fay noted, he took a standard western cliche, and didn't do anything with it, which is unforgiveable in an ME show.

Evidently no concept of either Companion-as-high-class-and-respectable-profession here -- not that they were Companions, granted, but is it possible to have Companions seen as respectable people, priestesses even, and also have all other women seen as chattle? I don't think so.

We saw a bit of the same thing at the end of "Shindig", which was set on Persephone, a planet that's supposed to be a bit more sophisticated than most of the other planets out on the fringe:

 ATHERTON: You set this up, whore. After I 
bought and paid for you. I should have uglied you up 
so no one else'd want you.

Well, the whole planet may not, but that comunity had a good three or four dozen that may not have been all misogynist as "morality" driven.

Are these the same folks who watched Burgess have a whore give him a blow job on a balcony overlooking the town square? Because that's an awfully funny view of morality. Plus the guy apparently owns the whole moon:

 NANDI: And you see the way we live here. 
Go into town, it's the same. Some places come up 
rustic 'cause they ain't got more'n the basics. Rance 
Burgess has money enough to build a city, a real 
community. He keeps people living like this so he can 
play cowboy, be the one with the best toys. Turned 
this moon into a gorram theme park. Someone stands 
up to him... He means to burn me out.

We are asked to believe that Mal, Zoe, and Wash would leave Serenity open and unguarded overnight when they are expecting to be attacked.

winces

Yeah, okay, that jarred with me too. I'd been airbrushing over that in my recollection of the ep, but -- yeah. That was bad. Also inexplicable -- I can buy Jayne spending the night gleefully wallowing in shaggage, but I'd totally have expected Kaylee to stay in her own quarters rather than a tumbledown house. Probably Zoe and Wash too.

Then Wash manages to trap himself in the engine room when he knows tha Mal needs him.

That was also bad, although I wasn't conscious of him being dumb otherwise in the ep, and I did enjoy the scene between Wash and Zoe.

eta

Still, I did enjoy it. Not one of my favourite episodes, because the dialogue didn't sparkle as much as in other eps, and the plot itself wasn't particularly sophisticated, but the actors are splendid, and they pulled me along. And again the details of set and FX were good.

I think Consuela was (forgive me if I've misunderstood) saying that this comes across as the work of an inexperienced writer, somebody who's not at the top of their game, and that the lack of other credits cited at IMDB would back her up here.

Yes, this. That's what I meant. I understand it is the first effort by one of Joss' assistants.

I agree, it's not dreck, but the fact remains that it could have been an episode in a half-dozen other series with only minimal changes in plot or dialog. Didn't feel like an ME production at all without the twist, and I appreciate Fay's fanwanking but 12 episodes in, don't you think we should know the difference between a Companion and a whore? Because it's not made clear. We shouldn't have to work that hard on such a fundamental cultural issue.

This is not to say there weren't good bits in the episode, because there were. But the overall plot left me cold. We'll have to disagree on the issue of Inara crying; I felt like the writer went back to the same well. ::shrugs::

I was not so much attacking Consuela's viewpoint as pointing out other ways to see the points that she brought up. We differ, and there have been good points made.

Plus? I don't know if it might be a factor, but they were given two episodes extra to do, and then there were a lot of negotiations and behind-the scenes negotiating going on. Perhaps a little more time and the threat of canellation didn't lend itself to rewrites, reshoots and all over energy that less of the crap flung at the production would have engendered.

Bloody Fox.

More the WB, IIRC.

How was the WB involved? Firefly was produced by Fox and aired on Fox. It might've had a chance on the WB.

What I got out of this episode was a call back to Kaylee's question to Inara about the Companion rules on dating. Inara said 'It's complicated.' Well, we find out here that Inara doesn't like complications. This leads me to believe that Inara left her home because she fell in love with someone and that's what brings her onto Serenity. And she figured that with Mal being the way he was when he was getting things started, there was no way she could make that mistake again. But then she got to know Mal. And started to love him. And the whole cycle continues until Inara learn to quit running and face reality. Make her own choices for good or for bad and live with them. This is why I believed Inara breaking down. That was the moment she realized that she loved Mal and the whole cycle was starting all over again. Everything she's running from, coming back to haunt her with just a different face.

I had lots more to say about the Ep, especially concerning companions and their place in the 'verse, but Fay just said it all for me. Bless Fay.