Zoe: Is there any way I'm gonna get out of this with honor and dignity? Wash: You're pretty much down to ritual suicide, lambie-toes.

'War Stories'


Firefly Spoilers  

Discussion of all Firefly episodes, including "Trash", "The Message", "Heart of Gold", and any movie news.


DCJensen - Jul 28, 2003 3:36:36 pm PDT #310 of 1424
All is well that ends in pizza.

WASH: Mal, your dead army buddy's on the bridge!


Fay - Jul 28, 2003 3:36:47 pm PDT #311 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

Bwah!


DCJensen - Jul 28, 2003 3:45:07 pm PDT #312 of 1424
All is well that ends in pizza.

Another bit from the script, inclusing dialogue around the second comment:

Book walks out from behind some crates and stuff.

BOOK

You won't be searching the ship,

Womack.

WOMACK

That so?

BOOK

It is. You won't be taking us in. Nor

that boy who's dying up there. You're

going to turn around, and just fly

away.

WOMACK

You know, I'm authorized to kill as

I like, shepherds not withstandin'.

Book is so cool here it's making my hands sweaty.

BOOK

There's nine armed and dangerous

desperados on this ship. You count in

at three. Why is it you didn't call

in for back-up?

And of course:

Written by: Joss Whedon & Tim Minear


Am-Chau Yarkona - Jul 29, 2003 12:26:34 am PDT #313 of 1424
I bop to Wittgenstein. -- Nutty

The Message

At the start, I was a little disappointed by this episode, somehow-- I think Out of Gas and Trash made me expect something clever, structually, and a simple story felt odd to begin with. But it picked up-- the Simon/Kaylee is sweet, and how wonderful are Wash and Zoe? A lot, that's how much. very wonderfully excellently marvellously wonderful. Especially Wash, with the flying, and Zoe, with the lecture about silence, and then Mal comes in yelling, and "there are other schools of thought".

And her being friendly with Simon. They actually related like human beings for a moment there, which was nice to see.

And poor Simon, with the cow feotus, and then annoying Kaylee again, and oh, poor Simon, and isn't he a real darling? I want to take him home and wrap him in a blanket and cuddle him. (Okay, so maybe I want to be on the inside of the blanket as well. Um. Bunk. Yeah. Good plan.) And I'm coming round to liking Kaylee, too. And you should see the look on my little brother's face when Kaylee was being all adorable looking at the not-an-alien. I think he's crushing on her as much as I am on Simon. Anyway.

Snow planets! I want a snow planet. River was so lovely, looking so baffled by it. And Jayne has great lines. "Girl's a mind reading genuis and she can't even work out how to eat a snow planet."

Jayne also has a great hat. I love Jayne's hat. It makes me grin like a loony.

And once I got over my annoyance that Tracey wasn't really dead (somehow, it reminds me of a Trek plot, that scene where Simon starts cutting and Tracy wakes up-- I can't remember which one, but it's nagging at the back of my mind, that I've seen this before), he was fun, as well as tragic. Nice to have that insight into Mal and Zoe and their past. His amazement that Zoe got married was fascinating, and well acted.

Inara wasn't there that much, and when she was she wasn't annoying-- and Book was fabulous, and River was great (love her lying on the coffin).

And I love the racing-though-the-canyons bit. I have an weird and screwed up love of all such scenes (I even manage to like the one in Phantom Menace with dreadful!Anakin, so this is hardly a rational judgement), but those special effects were lovely, and I'm still in love with the fact that there isn't any sound in space! It's lovely. And I may be overusing the word 'love' here.

I haven't yet used the word 'woobie' once, though. Let me put that right: Simon! Woobie! Hat-wearing Jayne! Woobie!

Although I was a bit confused by Tracey's "what are you hanging around with a preacher for?" line to Mal, since the last time I checked Mal only lost his religion at the end of the war. Unless Tracey was there right to the end or had met Mal again after the war, he shouldn't have known about that, I'd have thought. More backstory there that there wasn't time for in this episode, I guess.

So, yeah. There is love.


Fay - Jul 29, 2003 3:39:51 am PDT #314 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

Book was fabulous, and River was great (love her lying on the coffin).

Yes! Yes, I loved that scene too - Jayne talking about his reaction to dead bodies (well, those he hadn't killed his own self),and then replaying his remark about getting a bit of trim and hurriedly explaining that he wasn't turned on by corpses, and Book's response, and then the sight of River draping herself over the coffin. Cracking wee scene.

I simply CANNOT accept that there will be no more new Firefly. Not when there are so many wretched shows out there - all these America's funniest bits of CCTV footage and When Pies Attack and suchlike rubbish.


DXMachina - Jul 29, 2003 3:46:16 am PDT #315 of 1424
You always do this. We get tipsy, and you take advantage of my love of the scientific method.

And I love the racing-though-the-canyons bit. I have an weird and screwed up love of all such scenes (I even manage to like the one in Phantom Menace with dreadful!Anakin, so this is hardly a rational judgement), but those special effects were lovely, and I'm still in love with the fact that there isn't any sound in space! It's lovely. And I may be overusing the word 'love' here.

The thing I liked about that scene was that the bad guys weren't so stupid as to follow them, but were just content to stay above the canyons and lob bombs down on them. Nice bit of real life common sense versus the usual movie nonsense.

My main quibble with the episode is that Tracy decides to sell the organs to the higher bidder, despite the fact that the other guys still had his. This was the dumbest plan ever. What did he plan to use after he turned the organs over to the new owner? To me the story would've made much more sense if Tracy had discovered that the other guys *weren't* planning to reunite him with his own organs at the end, and that's why he ran. That would've been a lot simpler from the bad guys point of view. They wouldn't have had to smuggle anything, and eliminating Tracy removes a witness. Just toss his body in a dumpster what thinks and collect the dough. KISS.

Other than that, I liked the episode. Holden!Tracy is always fun to watch. And he still continues to remind me of Bill Murray.


Fay - Jul 29, 2003 3:54:58 am PDT #316 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

The thing I liked about that scene was that the bad guys weren't so stupid as to follow them, but were just content to stay above the canyons and lob bombs down on them. Nice bit of real life common sense versus the usual movie nonsense

Yes. Absolutely. These little moments - like "This is something the Cap'n has to do for himself" "No it ain't!" "Oh." - are what really make the show stand out.

But I was troubled by the stupidity of Tracy plannning on selling the organs on to other folks and then not having his own organs left. It would have been way simpler and more plausible if he'd simply realised, belatedly, that he'd got himself into a situation where he was going to be gutted and thrown away once the organs were extricated. Granted this would have made him slightly more of a sympathetic figure, rather than an opportunist. But it would have made more sense.


Am-Chau Yarkona - Jul 29, 2003 3:58:00 am PDT #317 of 1424
I bop to Wittgenstein. -- Nutty

I simply CANNOT accept that there will be no more new Firefly. Not when there are so many wretched shows out there - all these America's funniest bits of CCTV footage and When Pies Attack and suchlike rubbish.

Well, yes. Quite.

The thing I liked about that scene was that the bad guys weren't so stupid as to follow them, but were just content to stay above the canyons and lob bombs down on them. Nice bit of real life common sense versus the usual movie nonsense.

Yes! This too. I like this. Clever bad guys.

This was the dumbest plan ever.

Tracy was, I think, not so much with the brains. The impression I get of him, as a soldier, as a crook, was that he had reasonable plans, changed them for reasonable reasons, but without thinking the whole thing though properly.


DXMachina - Jul 29, 2003 4:05:59 am PDT #318 of 1424
You always do this. We get tipsy, and you take advantage of my love of the scientific method.

But I was troubled by the stupidity of Tracy plannning on selling the organs on to other folks and then not having his own organs left. It would have been way simpler and more plausible if he'd simply realised, belatedly, that he'd got himself into a situation where he was going to be gutted and thrown away once the organs were extricated. Granted this would have made him slightly more of a sympathetic figure, rather than an opportunist. But it would have made more sense.

But sympathetic is good, and he's still an opportunist. You would just need to move the offer of big piles of money back to the original agreement as the incentive for doing something that is clearly insane, rather than complicating things with the second offer.


Fay - Jul 29, 2003 4:13:24 am PDT #319 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

Sympathetic is good, but I rather like the fact that he's a bit of a knob, and with the selfishness and self-interest and Kaylee-threatening, but that it's not black and white. We still sympathise with him, and get a sense of there-but-for-the-grace-of-God to some extent. It's still moving, despite the fact that he has so thoroughly got himself into this mess himself, despite the fact that he isn't a simple victim who made one bad call and then tried to escape. He's kept on making bad decisions. He's been selfish and thoughtless and used people. The way we do.

I don't know - I pretty much do agree with you, but I'm trying to see why they chose to complicate it with this extra layer of treachery. (For I am a devil's advocate. But I don't have an evil hand. Honestly.)

Just struck me - I really liked Kaylee's reaction to the corpse, and the wee scene with her in her engine room listening to the Recording Device Of The Future (tm) - and Simon pausing and then retreating. And I loved the scene with Tracy (?sp?) pulling a gun on Wash, and Zoe shooting him, and the look on his face.