I was throughly blown away by the whole episode. Being unspoilt definately helped-- I wasn't expecting the little structure bitty, that gave us naked!Mal at the start as well as at the end; and I wasn't expecting Saffron. This is a truly wonderful show. I'm head over heels in love.

Wrod.

Can someone explain to me why a spoiler thread has limits on what can and cannot be discussed?

That seems bizarre and counter to what a spoiler thread is all about.

t puzzled

Either you don't understand the situation, or else you're being wilfully perverse. And, or at least so it seems to me, a tad on the arsey and combative side.

Trash has just been aired in the UK, but it has not yet been aired in the US. Up until this point, we have been able to discuss shows in the main thread as they air, and the US folks have kindly refrained from spoiling us (which has been greatly appreciated) and seem to have been enjoying our enthusiasm. Since our viewing order is that which Joss & co originally had in mind, we've started off with Serenity, giving us a significantly different experience of the show and impressions of character development etc have been markedly different, to judge from the general reactions.

Now I'm already pretty damned spoiled, but I'm enjoying the show so very much that I'm loath to be spoiled any further than I am - it's so much more fun to not see twists of plot and individual lines coming. So I've been avoiding this thread, for the most part. Other people are more spoilerphobic than I, and I can't say I blame them.

Regardless, we are now at a point where if we discuss the most recently aired episode in the main, non-spoiler thread, we will spoil some of the US Buffistas. This would be a shitty thing to do. Talking about Trash etc etc in the non-spoiler thread wouldn't be spoilery as far as we're concerned, you understand, because it has been aired. But it would be spoilery for them.

So it seemed sensible to move discussion of the spoilery-for-the-US episodes over here, rather than make a whole new thread just for the purpose.

But of course, that puts those of us who don't want to be spoiled for other episodes in a bit of a quandry. 'Cause I really want to be able to keep on talking about the episodes, but I don't want to be any more spoiled than I already am. And I don't want to spoil other people either.

Does this make it any clearer?

Let us say that Inara wears a bra with more aplomb than early Princess Leia, although she has not yet topped the Metal Bra of Captivity. It would take some doing to top the MBofC.

My dislike of Inara (up to this canon point) has nothing to do with her reserve, and everything to do with her concept (i.e. Companions) not making much sense socially, nor in the "gee, I might need to run in this skirt" sense. Also, there's the irritatingly stereotypical angsty-attracted antagonism with the male authority figure. The actor has no charisma I can see, but that only showcases the uselessness of the character as written. I'm with Allyson -- she theoretically serves a purpose, tying the dusty worlds back in with the clean worlds, giving the show a reason to go to Ariel, etc., etc., but mostly, she is Cast Member Number Nine, in a cast that should really be seven or fewer.

I like Saffron -- she is charismatic. I would like her even more if she had ever heard of this exciting new invention called the hairbrush.

My dislike of Inara (up to this canon point) has nothing to do with her reserve, and everything to do with her concept (i.e. Companions) not making much sense socially, nor in the "gee, I might need to run in this skirt" sense.

Ah, see, I've almost completely turned off my 'does this make actual sense?' function of analysis for this show. I'm only looking at it making emotional, gut-sense, troll-logic if you will, because our earth-logic doesn't exist in this world. I can't see how Companions work socially, or why they're still using projectile weapons, or how Simon's explanation of what they did to River is anything other than mumbo-jumbo, but I'm willing to suspend, as part of the general fictional 'suspention of disbelief' thing.

This may one day be the cause of a falling-out of love with this show, but for the time being I'm happy with the compromise.

Ah, see, I've almost completely turned off my 'does this make actual sense?'

Like a world where they have dumpsters that think? There had to have been a better way for the writers to have the crew smuggle the laser out of the house than a programmable dumpster, which makes no sense at all.

One problem I have with the concept of Companions is that they are supposed to be highly respected in the society, but apart from one scene in "The Train Job" nobody in the Firefly verse seems have gotten that memo. Everyone else, with the exception of a couple of recently deflowered young men, seems to treat Inara's occupation with very little respect at all.

Plus there's the whole question of why she's on that ship. She and Mal even talk about it in "Trash", and she still has no good answer. Why would a high-class call girl attach herself to a seedy tramp steamer? It makes no sense.

I can't see how Companions work socially

I can't quite see how either, but I really would like it to work socially. In a stupid, idealistic way. There's always going to be prostitution; it would be a good thing, I think, if somehow the profession were respected. I don't know that I buy this version of it, and I don't know that it's ever going to be possible for prostitution to be respected, to be a valid career choice that doesn't involve contempt on either side. But the parallels with geishas and with temple prostitutes are interesting to me. YMMV. Perhaps it would be stronger with a smaller cast.

eta

One problem I have with the concept of Companions is that they are supposed to be highly respected in the society, but apart from one scene in "The Train Job" nobody in the Firefly verse seems have gotten that memo. Everyone else, with the exception of a couple of recently deflowered young men, seems to treat Inara's occupation with very little respect at all.

I put that down to the fact that it's a Core World thing; that the social niche she fills in the Core Worlds barely exists out on the rim, so the crasser characters, if they're aware that she's a sex worker, translate that as a low class thing.

Plus there's the whole question of why she's on that ship. She and Mal even talk about it in "Trash", and she still has no good answer. Why would a high-class call girl attach herself to a seedy tramp steamer? It makes no sense.

Oh, I don't mind that. It's like Book's back story - I just believe that there is a reason, and that it would be an interesting reason.

I do think that the Companion concept could have made sense -- if it hadn't been exclusively linked to prostitution. If you really want to call someone "companion" and "ambassador", then why not make her, in fact, a cultural ambassador? A guild of cultural propagandists from the clean worlds, a chief vehicle for gossip and fashion trends out toward the fringes, a teacher of manners and style and etiquette for the young aspiring gentry. Such a job description could also involve sex (or it could not), but what it does do is provide a reason for a Companion to (a) travel (especially back and forth from center to fringes) and (b) be respected.

Also, it's nefarious, and I like nefarity. If just once someone had hired her saying "Thank goodness! I haven't had a decent game of whist in ages! ", then I think my idea could be plausibly wanked into canon; but if it's all about the booty call, then NSM. There's only so much socio-political function you can ascribe to a man following his dick, but train his children as petit-bourgeoisie, and you'll have him in the palm of your hand.

Can someone explain to me why a spoiler thread has limits on what can and cannot be discussed?

That seems bizarre and counter to what a spoiler thread is all about

I wouldn't call this willfully perverse, Fay. It should almost be in the FAQ for this discussion. It really doesn't make sense until you've explained why those last three episodes are being discussed here even though they're not too spoilery, and what's changed so that they've become more spoilery. (I still don't get it, but I don't need to know.)

Hi, le nubian. On W/X, because of your picture, I figured you named yourself for being African in origin. Now that I see you on a new board, I'm wondering if your name isn't really a pun on "le newbie one"?

Oh, I don't mind that. It's like Book's back story - I just believe that there is a reason, and that it would be an interesting reason.

Book isn't trying to earn a living, though. He is someone who ministers to the poor. From what I can see, Inara's "ministry" requires someone to pay her lots of money, and you just don't see a lot of those sorts of folks when you're on that kind of ship.

Yes, but they had been stopping at various quality ports where she *had* made contacts. She apparently chose to live out on the rim, and perhaps we'll get that backstory someday.

What Daniel said. The implication is that she's running away from something, same as the rest of them - not the law, but something. Plenty of people comment upon the fact that it's unusual to see a Companion out on the rim - she's got regulars she sees on the swankier planets, but clearly it's not usual for a Companion to be out there on this kind of ship. I presume that she has her reasons, and that the writers would have given us some more insight into her backstory and motivations if they'd not been stopped mid-season. Clearly YMMV on this one, though.

Le Nubian, I'm sorry for assuming that you read the main Firefly thread, and understood why there was any issue about where the UK folks could discuss the eps that were being aired. If you don't, then I can understand this being puzzling.

It really doesn't make sense until you've explained why those last three episodes are being discussed here even though they're not too spoilery, and what's changed so that they've become more spoilery. (I still don't get it, but I don't need to know.)

?

Man, I'm clearly being dim. I still don't get what you don't get, and I feel very stupid.

Nothing's changed to make them more spoilery. But the context of the discussion has changed, because the show is being aired in the UK. In the correct running order.

We've been discussing episodes as they air in the UK in the main thread, but now we're up to the unaired-in-the-US episode Trash we cannot continue to do so. (Well, okay, we could, but it would be shitty of us, since some of the US folks don't want to be spoiled for the unaired eps.)

That means we can't talk about those episodes anywhere but here.

But if we don't want to be spoiled for the other episodes that haven't yet been aired in the UK ( The Message, Heart of Gold and Objects In Space, to be aired in that order), we're kind of screwed, because this thread is the spoiler thread.

So it's either discuss in spoilerfont in the main thread, or else discuss it here and just hope not to be further spoiled. (I vote for the former, myself, but whatever's easiest.)