I asked in Bureaucracy if we can consense that, until the UK has seen each of them, there will be no further discussion of "The Message", "Heart of Gold" or "Objects In Space" in this thread. That way the thread will be safe for the UKistas as long as they don't read older posts. Three weeks from now, after all the eps have aired in the UK, this thread would be fair game for anything.

If you have an opinion, get thee to Bureaucracy.

Can someone explain to me why a spoiler thread has limits on what can and cannot be discussed?

That seems bizarre and counter to what a spoiler thread is all about.

I think th eproblem, if I understand correctly, is that the UKers need somewhere to talk about the episodes we didn't get to see. Here seems logical, but there is information in here about some of the ones they haven't seen. if they talk about it in regular firefly, then where will the Ams talk about it if they want to be unspoiled for the DVDs?

I think I have that right.

Skipping over many posts, and going to read next ones with hands over eyes, because there doesn't seem to be a consensus about where we post or whitefonting the other unaired episodes, to say... Trash. This was one amazing episode.

There was naked Mal. Naked. Not wearing any clothes. And being all... practical about it.

quiet moment to dwell on the goodness that is Tightpants sans pants

Saffron. I like Saffron, or rather, I throughly enjoy hating her. She's yet another example of how this show sets my Kinsey swinging, because I'd marry her in a heartbeat if she asked me. And then I'd want to kill her. Who wouldn't?

Inara was totally wonderful-- she's so cool, so calm, and she sets Mal on edge so perfectly.

And Zoe was great, and Wash's expression when Mal walked on board, naked, was priceless.

And River. Oh, wow, that girl just gets better and better. "I can kill you with my brain."

And, of course, my very own darling pet Simon. With Jayne trapped on the table, and now I'm definately seeing how people get that strange idea about there being sparks between Simon and Jayne. Sparks, oh dearie me, sparks indeed.

I was throughly blown away by the whole episode. Being unspoilt definately helped-- I wasn't expecting the little structure bitty, that gave us naked!Mal at the start as well as at the end; and I wasn't expecting Saffron. This is a truly wonderful show. I'm head over heels in love. And t bitter I don't want it to end, dammit!

I was throughly blown away by the whole episode. Being unspoilt definately helped-- I wasn't expecting the little structure bitty, that gave us naked!Mal at the start as well as at the end; and I wasn't expecting Saffron. This is a truly wonderful show. I'm head over heels in love.

Wrod.

Can someone explain to me why a spoiler thread has limits on what can and cannot be discussed?

That seems bizarre and counter to what a spoiler thread is all about.

t puzzled

Either you don't understand the situation, or else you're being wilfully perverse. And, or at least so it seems to me, a tad on the arsey and combative side.

Trash has just been aired in the UK, but it has not yet been aired in the US. Up until this point, we have been able to discuss shows in the main thread as they air, and the US folks have kindly refrained from spoiling us (which has been greatly appreciated) and seem to have been enjoying our enthusiasm. Since our viewing order is that which Joss & co originally had in mind, we've started off with Serenity, giving us a significantly different experience of the show and impressions of character development etc have been markedly different, to judge from the general reactions.

Now I'm already pretty damned spoiled, but I'm enjoying the show so very much that I'm loath to be spoiled any further than I am - it's so much more fun to not see twists of plot and individual lines coming. So I've been avoiding this thread, for the most part. Other people are more spoilerphobic than I, and I can't say I blame them.

Regardless, we are now at a point where if we discuss the most recently aired episode in the main, non-spoiler thread, we will spoil some of the US Buffistas. This would be a shitty thing to do. Talking about Trash etc etc in the non-spoiler thread wouldn't be spoilery as far as we're concerned, you understand, because it has been aired. But it would be spoilery for them.

So it seemed sensible to move discussion of the spoilery-for-the-US episodes over here, rather than make a whole new thread just for the purpose.

But of course, that puts those of us who don't want to be spoiled for other episodes in a bit of a quandry. 'Cause I really want to be able to keep on talking about the episodes, but I don't want to be any more spoiled than I already am. And I don't want to spoil other people either.

Does this make it any clearer?

Let us say that Inara wears a bra with more aplomb than early Princess Leia, although she has not yet topped the Metal Bra of Captivity. It would take some doing to top the MBofC.

My dislike of Inara (up to this canon point) has nothing to do with her reserve, and everything to do with her concept (i.e. Companions) not making much sense socially, nor in the "gee, I might need to run in this skirt" sense. Also, there's the irritatingly stereotypical angsty-attracted antagonism with the male authority figure. The actor has no charisma I can see, but that only showcases the uselessness of the character as written. I'm with Allyson -- she theoretically serves a purpose, tying the dusty worlds back in with the clean worlds, giving the show a reason to go to Ariel, etc., etc., but mostly, she is Cast Member Number Nine, in a cast that should really be seven or fewer.

I like Saffron -- she is charismatic. I would like her even more if she had ever heard of this exciting new invention called the hairbrush.

My dislike of Inara (up to this canon point) has nothing to do with her reserve, and everything to do with her concept (i.e. Companions) not making much sense socially, nor in the "gee, I might need to run in this skirt" sense.

Ah, see, I've almost completely turned off my 'does this make actual sense?' function of analysis for this show. I'm only looking at it making emotional, gut-sense, troll-logic if you will, because our earth-logic doesn't exist in this world. I can't see how Companions work socially, or why they're still using projectile weapons, or how Simon's explanation of what they did to River is anything other than mumbo-jumbo, but I'm willing to suspend, as part of the general fictional 'suspention of disbelief' thing.

This may one day be the cause of a falling-out of love with this show, but for the time being I'm happy with the compromise.

Ah, see, I've almost completely turned off my 'does this make actual sense?'

Like a world where they have dumpsters that think? There had to have been a better way for the writers to have the crew smuggle the laser out of the house than a programmable dumpster, which makes no sense at all.

One problem I have with the concept of Companions is that they are supposed to be highly respected in the society, but apart from one scene in "The Train Job" nobody in the Firefly verse seems have gotten that memo. Everyone else, with the exception of a couple of recently deflowered young men, seems to treat Inara's occupation with very little respect at all.

Plus there's the whole question of why she's on that ship. She and Mal even talk about it in "Trash", and she still has no good answer. Why would a high-class call girl attach herself to a seedy tramp steamer? It makes no sense.

I can't see how Companions work socially

I can't quite see how either, but I really would like it to work socially. In a stupid, idealistic way. There's always going to be prostitution; it would be a good thing, I think, if somehow the profession were respected. I don't know that I buy this version of it, and I don't know that it's ever going to be possible for prostitution to be respected, to be a valid career choice that doesn't involve contempt on either side. But the parallels with geishas and with temple prostitutes are interesting to me. YMMV. Perhaps it would be stronger with a smaller cast.

eta

One problem I have with the concept of Companions is that they are supposed to be highly respected in the society, but apart from one scene in "The Train Job" nobody in the Firefly verse seems have gotten that memo. Everyone else, with the exception of a couple of recently deflowered young men, seems to treat Inara's occupation with very little respect at all.

I put that down to the fact that it's a Core World thing; that the social niche she fills in the Core Worlds barely exists out on the rim, so the crasser characters, if they're aware that she's a sex worker, translate that as a low class thing.

Plus there's the whole question of why she's on that ship. She and Mal even talk about it in "Trash", and she still has no good answer. Why would a high-class call girl attach herself to a seedy tramp steamer? It makes no sense.

Oh, I don't mind that. It's like Book's back story - I just believe that there is a reason, and that it would be an interesting reason.

I do think that the Companion concept could have made sense -- if it hadn't been exclusively linked to prostitution. If you really want to call someone "companion" and "ambassador", then why not make her, in fact, a cultural ambassador? A guild of cultural propagandists from the clean worlds, a chief vehicle for gossip and fashion trends out toward the fringes, a teacher of manners and style and etiquette for the young aspiring gentry. Such a job description could also involve sex (or it could not), but what it does do is provide a reason for a Companion to (a) travel (especially back and forth from center to fringes) and (b) be respected.

Also, it's nefarious, and I like nefarity. If just once someone had hired her saying "Thank goodness! I haven't had a decent game of whist in ages! ", then I think my idea could be plausibly wanked into canon; but if it's all about the booty call, then NSM. There's only so much socio-political function you can ascribe to a man following his dick, but train his children as petit-bourgeoisie, and you'll have him in the palm of your hand.