The Bay City Rollers, now that's music.

Giles ,'Sleeper'


Firefly Spoilers  

Discussion of all Firefly episodes, including "Trash", "The Message", "Heart of Gold", and any movie news.


tommyrot - Sep 29, 2005 9:59:56 am PDT #1405 of 1424
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.

There is no spoon.

(Has that joke gotten tired yet?)


AnthonyDe - Sep 29, 2005 10:05:16 am PDT #1406 of 1424
A One that isn't cold, is scarcely A One at all.

I'm sure plot was as equally important as the character reintroduction and translating the show to film. The first draft comes in at 190 pages and I'm pretty sure that version has enough of whatever anyone feels was lacking. From what I understand Joss basically condensed the arcs he had planned for the show so they are TV plots. Playing devil's advocate, Firefly was set up for TV. The day to day struggles work better week to week. They needed a bigger story, a story that makes them effect the universe in which they live. I think this plot does that.

I haven't seen too many specific examples. 1) Zoe/Wash is now ruined. Wash/Book died. No Book backstory. I don't think it's a coincidence that Alan and Ron were the last to sign. I think it's possible that outside stuff effected story. Salary, future comittment, could be any number of things who knows? Those deaths do pay off in the short term. Even at my second viewing I felt like anyone could die at anytime at the end. 2) No Mal/Inara payoff. I don't think there will ever be one. Don't necessarily believe there should be. 3) Mal not killing the Operative is out of character. Mal is supposed to have undergone a change. In a blatant on-the-nose statement he believes the truth is worth dying for. His friends have died for it. At the time for him, having the Operative know the truth is more important then killing him. In addition, it becomes personal between Mal and the Operative. Mal is imposing his will like he always does. He is right and the Operative is wrong and he wants him to know it, almost as if to one up him. 4) When the dialogue is good it's really good and plays just as well the second time through. There might be a few missteps but nothing that significantly bothered me. I'm hoping "really don't" is just Serenity's "I have a bad feeling about this."


§ ita § - Sep 29, 2005 10:09:39 am PDT #1407 of 1424
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I would have been pissed if there'd been a Mal/Inara payoff. I think the Kaylee/Simon was enough, but I also think it wasn't well written.


AnthonyDe - Sep 29, 2005 10:21:15 am PDT #1408 of 1424
A One that isn't cold, is scarcely A One at all.

Depending whom you mean by "people." (Way to out yourself as a Yankees fan, dude!)

I'm Met fan and you've hurt me more than you'll ever know. But yeah, I make allowances for home team mentality.

I would have been pissed if there'd been a Mal/Inara payoff. I think the Kaylee/Simon was enough, but I also think it wasn't well written.

Just speculation on my part but I don't think you'll see more than one couple at a time on that ship. I think that was more of a payoff for the fan as opposed to the non fan. At first I thought Wash and Book's deaths left a huge hole in that they almost represented parts of Mal's conscience. They were the angel on his left shoulder. Wash always with the non-violent solution and Book with right, just and Christian approach. In many ways I think we see Simon bring what Wash has brought. In the show, he didn't do much. He never really participated in the galley table chats. Now he's apart of the ship's on board couple and I can see him as the one offering the civil solution to problems.


Kate P. - Sep 29, 2005 10:58:41 am PDT #1409 of 1424
That's the pain / That cuts a straight line down through the heart / We call it love

I thought the Simon/Kaylee romance was the most poorly-written and poorly-integrated plot thread. As a 'shipper, I was disappointed in the resolution--such as it was--of all their flirting and sexual tension on the show. I liked the Mal/Inara interactions and was glad that nothing was resolved for them.

Mal not killing the Operative is out of character.

I disagree. I think it would have been consistent with his characterization if he had killed him, but I don't think it's inconsistent that he didn't. (Although I confess that I don't quite understand the school of thought that equates "staying in character" with the character doing the same thing every time he or she encounters a similar situation.) I think Mal has been written with enough compassion and righteousness (tempered with vengeful and ruthless tendencies, to be sure, but I observe in him a struggle to maintain a balance between the two) that I understand why he made the decision to leave the Operative alive. Possibly he saw something of Book in him, and that was enough to justify not killing him.

Also, because the fight between the Operative and himself was in many ways an ideological one, I understand why it was more important to him that the Operative see the message than that the Operative be removed entirely as a threat.


JZ - Sep 29, 2005 11:34:15 am PDT #1410 of 1424
See? I gave everybody here an opportunity to tell me what a bad person I am and nobody did, because I fuckin' rule.

I just checked rottentomatoes.com - Serenity is up to 77% fresh; 35 total reviews so far, 22 counting toward the tomatometer, with the good reviews mostly by Firefly fans but with a few total newcomers to the 'verse saying nice things as well.


Gris - Sep 29, 2005 11:52:44 am PDT #1411 of 1424
Hey. New board.

I would have been pissed if there'd been a Mal/Inara payoff. I think the Kaylee/Simon was enough, but I also think it wasn't well written.

ITA


Nutty - Sep 29, 2005 11:58:02 am PDT #1412 of 1424
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

I'm Met fan and you've hurt me more than you'll ever know.

I apologize deeply. You are only reciting the propaganda plastered all over your city's back pages. Pages which the Mets would surely like to grace for reasons other than their mediocrity, poor souls. Still, the team's got potential.

I found the Simon/Kaylee stuff pretty predictable, but not especially bothersome for all that. Inara was 100% waste of skin. Book wasn't much of a character -- shades of the magical negro -- especially when he got to have Martyrsome Last Words for Our Hero.

I liked No-Name the operative a lot, in part because I like Chiwetel Ejiofor a lot. He's got a humane intelligence to him, which juxtaposes nicely to the character's actions. I do recall thinking it was kind of strange that he be left, at the end like that. I can imagine scenarios, where it's a "race to the upload button" situation, where, the button being pressed, he recognizes that his job can't be done, and, like, invites himself over to Serenity for breakfast. But that wasn't what was scripted.


beekaytee - Sep 29, 2005 12:16:38 pm PDT #1413 of 1424
Compassionately intolerant

Wearing costumes for regular showings is also not of the good

I'm kinda looking forward to the geekpeeping tomorrow night. It has to be more fun than "leafpeeping". (planning a vacation around staring at vegetation has always mystified me.)

Then again, I'll be incognito...passing as a normal person. Must. control. squeeing.


AnthonyDe - Sep 29, 2005 12:31:43 pm PDT #1414 of 1424
A One that isn't cold, is scarcely A One at all.

I apologize deeply. You are only reciting the propaganda plastered all over your city's back pages.

If anything it puts ones concept of fanaticism in perspective. In pregame celebration Islander and Ranger fans fought on the ice, dressed in Santa suits! Then I move out here and go to a Dodger game where you can hear the resounding roar of golf claps. People walking around in costume? Could be worse, just saying.

Pages which the Mets would surely like to grace for reasons other than their mediocrity, poor souls. Still, the team's got potential.
It's fun to root for the underdog.

I can imagine scenarios, where it's a "race to the upload button" situation, where, the button being pressed, he recognizes that his job can't be done, and, like, invites himself over to Serenity for breakfast. But that wasn't what was scripted.
I thought for sure when the Operative showed up again he was going to announce he was becoming a shepherd. Glad that didn't happen.