The problem for me, and I'm sure many others, is that we didn't need the tension ratcheted up. We were already invested. As I said before, I shut down emotionally during the final battle because I could not allow myself to care anymore. I went from "Oh my God, this is tense!" to "Why is Joss doing this?" It was just too much and I was thrown out of the story because of it.

I agreed with you then, but after seeing the film again last night, not so much. I think knowing what was going to happen, that no one would die after Wash, helped me enjoy the film more. Seeing Zoe get cut and Simon shot still hurt, but I didn't shut down like I did when I didn't know what their fate would be.

ITA with ita. Book's death felt very Obi-Wan-ish - that is, almost inevitable - because I felt Joss was going to kill someone. It was sad, but it didn't surprise me when I got spoiled for it.

Even knowing about it, Wash hurt a lot, but, because of the placement in the movie, was hugely effective in ratcheting the tension (not to a gratuitous degree, IMO - but in light of Jon B's post, being spoiled may have accounted for a huge part of that). The people I saw it with (who were recent FIREFLYers) were massively shocked, but they liked it a lot too.

I agreed with you then, but after seeing the film again last night, not so much. I think knowing what was going to happen, that no one would die after Wash, helped me enjoy the film more. Seeing Zoe get cut and Simon shot still hurt, but I didn't shut down like I did when I didn't know what their fate would be.

Well, I'm in the same boat. On my second viewing, knowing what was going to happen, I was able to relax and enjoy the film (outside of the horrified shrieks from the people who hadn't seen it before). I know I'm going to enjoy seeing it again Friday night, though as I said upthread, I'm feeling kind of guilty in a wierd way about inflicting it upon my friends who haven't seen it yet but loved Firefly.

Yeah, I think the moans and shrieks from the audience last night were more painful to me than seeing the actual impaling.

I'm glad to read that Wash's death hurts (us) less on repeat viewings. I'd expected it to be so, but I can't help also feeling a little nervous squirm in my stomach about watching it again. Now I just have to figure out whether or not to bring my friend who hasn't seen the whole series yet. Though it would be interesting to watch his reactions to the last several episodes if he'd seen the movie already.

My position is that I'd like my friends to have seen War Stories before the movie. That feeling of melancholy I'm going to get on rewatch -- well, I'd like them to cheer the rescue untaintedly the first time round.

"War Stories" is actually the last one we watched, so that's good. I'm mostly thinking about the scene in "Heart of Gold" in which he and Zoe talk about having kids. ouch!

I think the assumption that only "us" will care is ... well, probably not one made at the time of writing, and it's not one I hold either.

I do think that only "we" will feel a big impact from Wash's death. The non-tv-viewers will feel that wratching up of tensions, but I don't think the movie provides enough insight to Wash in order to really experience the death. It's like the death of a close friend vs. an acquaintance. Impact, yes. But to what extent?

While the movie sets up some of who he is, one big thing that isn't set up well is the relationship between Wash and Zoe. I was upset by Wash's death, but I was more upset for Zoe having to go on without him. She's a strong woman and she'll make it through, but not before she has to go through a lot of grief. That tore me up.

I don't think the movie provides enough insight to Wash in order to really experience the death

Are you saying the non-fan's experience will be insufficient? Insufficient to what? What's the scale it's being judged on.

I agree it'll be less, but I don't think it won't be affecting. And I don't see how it can't be less. Most everything's going to be less if you go in without the history and affection and expectations.

Will Wash's death mean less to the first time viewer than the death of a character in your average decent ensemble movie? If so, why? Do you think Joss did a less than averagely decent job of painting Wash as a valuable and rewarding-to-watch character?

Is it alright for me to discuss why I thought the movie was awful, or is that going to cause great pain and some craxiness? I don't really want to inflict either on the thread, but I've been wanting to discuss why I thought it smelled of poo. I'll hold back though and stick to my LJ, no harm done, if everyone needs the lovefest.