All right, no one's killing folk today, on account of our very tight schedule.

Mal ,'Trash'


Firefly Spoilers  

Discussion of all Firefly episodes, including "Trash", "The Message", "Heart of Gold", and any movie news.


Barry Woodward - Jul 11, 2005 2:26:35 am PDT #1140 of 1424
I fought the law and I won!

Simon's words from the pilot:

"Money. And luck -- for two years I couldn't get near her, but I was contacted by some men, some underground movement. They said she was in danger, that the government was playing with her brain. If I funded them they could sneak her out in cryo. Get her to Boros and from there, I could take her... wherever."

Now does his rescue contradict that? From a certain point of view, namely mine, no. See, in my fanwank, the underground group helped him gain access to River in the first place but once he rescued her, he couldn't freely roam the streets of a core world where they were looking for her (and surely he was a suspect). That's why he had the same group put her in cryo and ship her to him in a less surveillance heavy section of the world (hence the "sneak her out" line), where he then caught a ride on Serenity in the pilot. Works for me.


Kiba Rika - Jul 11, 2005 2:46:06 am PDT #1141 of 1424
I may have to seize the cat.

Barry, it works. It just seems like a stretch to me.


Barry Woodward - Jul 11, 2005 3:00:19 am PDT #1142 of 1424
I fought the law and I won!

It is a bit of a stretch but saying Joss goofed up or purposefully chose to disregard that bit of information for the benefit of the movie (while probably true) isn't satisfying enough for me. It's preferable for me to come up with an explaination (however tenuous) in order to preserve the continuity of the verse in my head.


Steph L. - Jul 11, 2005 4:50:57 am PDT #1143 of 1424
the hardest to learn / was the least complicated

but saying Joss goofed up or purposefully chose to disregard that bit of information for the benefit of the movie (while probably true) isn't satisfying enough for me. It's preferable for me to come up with an explaination (however tenuous) in order to preserve the continuity of the verse in my head.

And Angel was Spike's sire. Uh-huh.


Kiba Rika - Jul 11, 2005 4:56:42 am PDT #1144 of 1424
I may have to seize the cat.

Yeah. It just doesn't bother me to say, "Joss disregarded continuity on purpose," maybe because I've seen him say so in multiple interviews. Just the other night I was noticing how interestingly the episode "Darla" retconned Angel's experience with the Gypsy girl as portrayed in the episode "The Prodigal." (ie, Darla knew immediately that he had been cursed and kicked him out in "The Prodigal," whereas in "Darla" she seemed to be ignorant of or at least unbothered by this fact).


Nutty - Jul 11, 2005 5:17:59 am PDT #1145 of 1424
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

In other words, Joss's total willingness to retcon himself isn't a bug; it's a feature.


Frankenbuddha - Jul 11, 2005 5:28:16 am PDT #1146 of 1424
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

In other words, Joss's total willingness to retcon himself isn't a bug; it's a feature.

Gift with purchase?


tianxiaode - Jul 11, 2005 5:49:42 am PDT #1147 of 1424
Adrian Pasdar: bringing hot (and ambiguously gay) to a new level since Top Gun.

Or the simplest explanation is that Simon knew very well what the crew of Serenity would think of him, and he decided to play up the helpless angle a bit to gain sympathy, and lied in the pilot.


Gris - Jul 11, 2005 5:53:18 am PDT #1148 of 1424
Hey. New board.

I don't believe it. His bumbling helplessness was far too realistic. Plus, anybody that could be that cool hitting the floor with the neat paralysis thingy he had shouldn't be so uselessly scared with a gun, methinks.


Nutty - Jul 11, 2005 6:05:58 am PDT #1149 of 1424
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

The nice part about it being a retcon is that we get to have our cake (exciting action sequence! New weapons!) and eat it too (the whole point of the original escape story being that Simon doesn't actually know till the box is opened whether his sister has been rescued or not).

On the one hand, active rescue, Simon being assertive, River assisting her own escape; on the other, passive rescue, that richness of whole other characters we never meet who have motivations, and that sick fear of throwing away everything on the mere chance of saving his family. Two very different interpretations, both of which can, at times, seem to fit the character we meet on the screen.

Although, intellectually, I find retconning sloppy and annoying, sometimes it is very emotionally satisfying to have conflicting motivations/explanations/thought-processes, both of which are plausible and neither of which is exclusive. Which, come to think, is what the Jossverses are all about, right? Emotional arc supersedes logic when necessary.