My whole life, I've never loved anything else.

Oz ,'Him'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


Topic!Cindy - Oct 05, 2004 10:30:28 am PDT #9087 of 10001
What is even happening?

Just because he said he loved her, doesn't mean he was aiming anything workable in her direction.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I think Riley turned into a completely unreasonable whinger. And in fact, I think the slayerness wall was more something for him to hurdle, than for her to tear down. It was a fact of her, and he said he wanted the whole package (also in that conversation, in "The Replacement", but I don't think he actually understood the whole package). I think he was ridiculous when it came to his expectations about Buffy where Joyce's illness (and Buffy's feelings about it) were concerned.

There was a point in time though, where it was clear he felt in love with her. Where some people are sure she didn't/couldn't/wouldn't love him, I think she was still in the I-could-love-him stage, when he FUBARed it.


Fred Pete - Oct 05, 2004 10:44:43 am PDT #9088 of 10001
Ann, that's a ferret.

I think he was ridiculous when it came to his expectations about Buffy where Joyce's illness (and Buffy's feelings about it) were concerned.

The problem being that the S5 arc (as it played out) required Riley and Buffy to break up. Half (or more) of the reason for her swan dive at the end of "The Gift" was that Dawn was the only person left for her. She'd lost Riley, then her mother, and she decided not to lose Dawn as well.

Hmmmm. Come to think of it. Riley stays (preferably in goofball grad student mode), Dawn dies at the end of S5, angst over sacrificing Dawn to begin S6. There are worse scenarios.

(Edited to add parenthetical)


-t - Oct 05, 2004 10:49:09 am PDT #9089 of 10001
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

Buffy and Riley had the mutual crush thing going on, and being all super-powered and saving the world together, well who wouldn't enjoy that? But I don't think they were ever good at normal day-to-day life as a couple. Riley wanted to be pivotal to her and Buffy just didn't have the time or energy to do anything but take him for granted. No fault to either of them, really.


Vortex - Oct 05, 2004 10:55:51 am PDT #9090 of 10001
"Cry havoc and let slip the boobs of war!" -- Miracleman

it's an interesting parallel to "I Will Remember You" All Buffy wanted was a normal boyfriend, and Angel had to be all noble and screw it up. IWRY is on this week, by the way. Get out the tissues.


JohnSweden - Oct 05, 2004 11:08:35 am PDT #9091 of 10001
I can't even.

Come to think of it. Riley stays (preferably in goofball grad student mode), Dawn dies at the end of S5, angst over sacrificing Dawn to begin S6. There are worse scenarios.

Like the one that aired. I would have been much happier with your proposed version, Fred Pete. Let's put up a website and take donations to lobby FOX to edit the dvds!


Stephanie - Oct 05, 2004 12:57:46 pm PDT #9092 of 10001
Trust my rage

it's an interesting parallel to "I Will Remember You" All Buffy wanted was a normal boyfriend

What I think is so interesting about IWRY is that Buffy was very close to having a normal boyfriend with Riley, but she was willing to forget about him to be a normal girlfriend with Angel. Not that I blame her, but that always made me question the depth of her feelings for Riley.

I think he was ridiculous when it came to his expectations about Buffy where Joyce's illness (and Buffy's feelings about it) were concerned.

I agree with this but I also think that, objectively, her reaction told him something about how Buffy felt about him. I think he should have let her react how she wanted, but when the woman you love isn't leaning on you, that says something about your relationship.


Topic!Cindy - Oct 05, 2004 1:01:02 pm PDT #9093 of 10001
What is even happening?

Even when the woman is a superhero, and not one to lean?


§ ita § - Oct 05, 2004 1:02:02 pm PDT #9094 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

It's not like he started dating a leaner, or a woman that promised to lean and reneged.

Some women don't lean, and still get loved.

Ask Wash.


Stephanie - Oct 05, 2004 1:02:31 pm PDT #9095 of 10001
Trust my rage

Even when the woman is a superhero, and not one to lean?

I guess that's part of loving a slayer, but she was a leaner - she leaned on Angel, and she leaned on her friends. That's part of why she was different from all the other slayers.

re: Zoe. I see Buffy as more of a leaner than Zoe.

ETA: Clarity


brenda m - Oct 05, 2004 1:03:51 pm PDT #9096 of 10001
If you're going through hell/keep on going/don't slow down/keep your fear from showing/you might be gone/'fore the devil even knows you're there

Buffy had walls, definitely. But I do think the Slayer Problem was something that Riley mostly created in his own mind, and that then became the situation they had to deal with. Life being life, Buffy had more urgent things on her plate just then and didn't have the [time/emotional energy/insight] to make that a priority.