And, in all fairness to Buffy, HER MOTHER WAS DYING. She had to deal with that, take care of her, and take care of her "sister". She didn't have enough left for a relationship.

Oh, I'm not blaming Buffy for the way she felt. The way she felt was the way she felt. She was majorly stressed and Riley was a bit needy and whiny there at the end. Especially when she could have used some support from him and she didn't get it.

I feel like her Slayerness was a wall. He had issues with it too.

Oh, yes. He had some major issues with her being stronger than him and it taking away time/focus/energy from him. No question.

She didn't need to wield it so to make it true.

My question is, did she wield it? Or did she take advantage of something that was already there?

Victor, Thessaly, so sorry to hear about the ferret.

I liked early Riley too, though I was sufficiently disenchanted by his later Clenchy McLockjaw military stuff that by the time of "The Yoko Factor" I was rooting for Angel to kill him.

My question is, did she wield it? Or did she take advantage of something that was already there?

I think neither. It's something like, in my view, did she wield the death of her mother, or did she take advantage of what was already there? Also, when did she stop beating her wife?

I don't presume her guilty. I think she tried, and failed.

I think she tried, and failed.

I can get on board that wagon. I think, ultimately, Buffy and Riley were a good pair with bad timing. They both had some growing up to do in order to make the relationship work. If they had met 3 years later, it may have worked out.

My question is, did she wield it? Or did she take advantage of something that was already there?

i'm not sure what you mean. Did she take their Slayer issues and add them to her protective layers so he couldn't get close to her? Emphasize their problems rather than try to overcome them? Is that the question?

Did she take their Slayer issues and add them to her protective layers so he couldn't get close to her? Emphasize their problems rather than try to overcome them? Is that the question?

Yes, that's exactly what I mean.

Now that you say that, Cindy, I'm not sure she ever said it to him. I guess I was drawing conclusions after her "run after him if you love him" conversation with Xander.

I remember him saying it to her (or at least saying it in other words) two times. The first was in The Yoko Factor, when she had to unruffle his feathers after their encounters with Angel. When he said it, that time, her face indicated she felt similarly, or at least was fairly thrilled he'd said it. He also said it, or something akin to it, during The Replacement, when they were riding over to Xander's new place, to figure out the two Xander mess. She seemed rather happy that time, too.

I think there was a time in which (maybe) Buffy could have grown to love Riley, eventually. I don't think she was *there* yet. He was. After everything that happened, I don't think the potential was the same.

He was.

I disagree. Just because he said he loved her, doesn't mean he was aiming anything workable in her direction.

Just because he said he loved her, doesn't mean he was aiming anything workable in her direction.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I think Riley turned into a completely unreasonable whinger. And in fact, I think the slayerness wall was more something for him to hurdle, than for her to tear down. It was a fact of her, and he said he wanted the whole package (also in that conversation, in "The Replacement", but I don't think he actually understood the whole package). I think he was ridiculous when it came to his expectations about Buffy where Joyce's illness (and Buffy's feelings about it) were concerned.

There was a point in time though, where it was clear he felt in love with her. Where some people are sure she didn't/couldn't/wouldn't love him, I think she was still in the I-could-love-him stage, when he FUBARed it.

I think he was ridiculous when it came to his expectations about Buffy where Joyce's illness (and Buffy's feelings about it) were concerned.

The problem being that the S5 arc (as it played out) required Riley and Buffy to break up. Half (or more) of the reason for her swan dive at the end of "The Gift" was that Dawn was the only person left for her. She'd lost Riley, then her mother, and she decided not to lose Dawn as well.

Hmmmm. Come to think of it. Riley stays (preferably in goofball grad student mode), Dawn dies at the end of S5, angst over sacrificing Dawn to begin S6. There are worse scenarios.

(Edited to add parenthetical)