It just occurred to me that A:TS didn't kill off a single recurring (as opposed to main credits) female character who wasn't a villain. Kate, Virginia, Gwen, Anne/Lilly/Chanterelle, Nina - they all got to walk away.

They also let Harmony, Justine and Eve (unless she stayed in the W&H when it came down) get away, but they were all gray enough that I put them alongside Lillah and Darla.

And what the hell - 8s!

I find that I'm much more prone to, be it TV or comics, get crankier about qualitative stuff regarding deaths than quantitative.

Yes, this.

To me a death where the character doesn't stay dead does not count, which takes Buffy, Spike, Angel and Connor off the list. Neither does the death of a villain, like Warren or Glory, or one of a truly minor character like Larry. Those deaths may have some impact, but they were not extensively mourned on the show.

Using that subjective criteria, I come up with a list of female deaths that matter consisting of Jenny, Joyce, Tara, Anya, Darla, Lilah, Cordelia and Fred. Male deaths that mattered were Jesse, Jonathan, Doyle and Wesley. That's eight to four/possibly three, depending on how you count Jesse -- I think of him as a redshirt. And while Doyle and Wesley both had heroic deaths, only Anya (and, arguably, Jenny and Darla) got that privilege from the list of women.

I'd give Darla a heroic death--well, the last time--but not Jenny. She didn't die wussy, but she didn't die for a reason either.

Riley was in the credits for S5. They used that cool shot of him through the glass table in restless...

"We're the government, baby -- it's what we do."

I think Darla had an extremely heroic death for someone most of whose time was spent being a villain. I mean, there are two classes of villain -- the ones we get inside of (Darla, Lilah, Jonathan, Faith if she'd died S3) and the ones with whom we have less intimacy. Darla definitely skews to the "did a million bad things, many of which were onscreen" side of that countinuum.

Oh, and Angel didn't die. It's a thing.

I'd give Darla a heroic death--well, the last time--but not Jenny. She didn't die wussy, but she didn't die for a reason either.

But Angelus killed Jenny because she was trying to resoul him. She didn't die in the heat of battle, but she was murdered because of her powers.

Men abandon, women die. Doesn't make anyone look that good.

In a way, but I would much rather be in Spain boffing my secretary than die of a brain hemorrage -- or go to Nepal to find myself, instead of being shot. OTOH, Joyce is a good guy and Hank is pretty much a bad guy, so maybe it's all about whether you look pretty or whether you survive.

Oh, and Angel didn't die. It's a thing.

He was mourned, though, when he was sucked into hell, or however you want to technically define the "had a sword stuck through him and went to hell" part. Especially by Buffy.

Well, technically, Angel was already dead. If he had been alive (not a vamp) when Buffy ran him through with the sword, gone to hell, and then come back, that probably would have counted as him dying and a resurrection, right?

I would much rather be in Spain boffing my secretary than die of a brain hemorrage

But would you rather be remembered in history as the one that abandoned your daughter, or the one that stayed with her through thick and thin?

The women do get to retain their nobility upon exiting the show. Deaths are easy that way.

He was mourned, though

Doesn't make him dead. Just makes him mourned. I would mourn forcing my boyfriend to go to Australia under traumatic conditions, never mind somewhere without Internet access.

If he had been alive (not a vamp) when Buffy ran him through with the sword, gone to hell, and then come back, that probably would have counted as him dying and a resurrection, right?

Yeah. If Faith had died when Buffy stabbed her, that would have counted as her dying too. But she didn't, so we can't.