Nothing worse than a monster who thinks he's right with God.

Mal ,'Heart Of Gold'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


DavidS - Jan 05, 2004 8:31:21 am PST #7130 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

It was the fact that she didn't lean on him enough that somehow emasculated him.

I think that the writing in that section is why folks are still up in arms over Into the Woods and then Are You Now. Because I think what ME wanted to convey was that Buffy was shutting people out emotionally and withdrawing into herself. That's certainly the thread that continues through S6 and S7.

The failure of her relationship with Riley is supposed to be indicative that Buffy has never really recovered from killing Angel, and that she's emotionally closed. That her slayer duties are oppressive and damaging to her emotionally and the way she compensated was to pull into herself. The whole inferiority/superiority complex Knox diagnosed.

But instead in their haste to get Riley offscreen, the writers went for the dramatic suckjob and (I think most disastrously) they made the focal point of his complaint to Buffy that she didn't turn to him during Joyce's illness. This is supposed to read to us that Buffy won't turn to anybody else for emotional support - but instead it inevitably paints Riley as insecure, needy and completely not being Supporting Boyfriend During A Crisis.

Also Xander's speech in ItW was a misfire. He's supposed to be Buffy's trusted don't-bullshit-yourself friend. He's supposed to be conveying something like "Don't give up on the idea that you could have a healthy relationship with a human being, a real emotional life." In context, it's hard to hear his speech as anything except "It's all your fault. You're a cold bitch. You drove him away. You should accept a vamp-junkie boyfriend because what else are you going to get?"


Micole - Jan 05, 2004 8:35:20 am PST #7131 of 10001
I've been working on a song about the difference between analogy and metaphor.

"Into the Woods" transcript:

BUFFY: The guy got himself bit by a vampire! (Xander is surprised) He lied to me. He ran around behind my back and almost got himself killed! And now he tells me that he's leaving with some covert military operation at midnight unless *I* convince him not to. Now tell me that you understand. Because I sure as hell don't.

-- which reads pretty much like Buffy telling someone to me.

And yes, Xander knew about Parker. Buffy told him herself ("I'm a slut, I'm a ho" in "Beer Bad," plus Xander remarking on the idiocy of any guy who'd turn down the Buff in "Fear, Itself.").


Lyra Jane - Jan 05, 2004 8:41:18 am PST #7132 of 10001
Up with the sun

which reads pretty much like Buffy telling someone to me.

You could argue that Xander understood it as "Riley went patrolling without telling me and got bit." I think that between the language she used in that speech and her emotional reaction to voluntary biting earlier in the episode, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect him to put two and two together, but I can see where the people who say he couldn't have known are coming from.


Fred Pete - Jan 05, 2004 8:47:59 am PST #7133 of 10001
Ann, that's a ferret.

Been a while since I saw ITW, but I remember his speech as "Make up your mind. And I'd better make up mine."

NSM pro-Riley as anti-dithery-Buffy.


Glamcookie - Jan 05, 2004 9:39:50 am PST #7134 of 10001
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

If Aimee were around she might even throw in the C word.

Perkins, this truly brightened my morning. I laughed my butt off!

Also seconding that it should be FaithnBuffy4EVAH!!!!


Aims - Jan 05, 2004 9:45:02 am PST #7135 of 10001
Shit's all sorts of different now.

If Aimee were around she might even throw in the C word.

I would, I would. I can always be counted for that.


Glamcookie - Jan 05, 2004 9:46:05 am PST #7136 of 10001
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

God love ya'!


Lee - Jan 05, 2004 9:57:49 am PST #7137 of 10001
The feeling you get when your brain finally lets your heart get in its pants.

Perkins, this truly brightened my morning. I laughed my butt off!

Yay me! I'm pretty sure I won't accomplish anything better today. Can I go home now?


Aims - Jan 05, 2004 9:58:06 am PST #7138 of 10001
Shit's all sorts of different now.

t sends Perkins home


Lee - Jan 05, 2004 11:10:29 am PST #7139 of 10001
The feeling you get when your brain finally lets your heart get in its pants.

sends Perkins home

Sigh. I tried to explain to people that I had an edict from the Empress, but they didn't buy it.

Stoopid people.