Dawn: Is that supposed to scare me? Spike: Little tremble wouldn't hurt.

'The Killer In Me'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


Volans - Dec 10, 2003 3:17:59 pm PST #6847 of 10001
move out and draw fire

What I don't get is:

The story talked a lot about ... the lack of consequences

D'you think they bothered to watch the show and check out the consequences that were visited on the characters?


DCJensen - Dec 10, 2003 5:14:32 pm PST #6848 of 10001
All is well that ends in pizza.

[link]


Cindy - Dec 10, 2003 7:46:13 pm PST #6849 of 10001
Nobody

I'll tell you, I'd have felt a lot more worried if the Fundies had liked the show and gotten its highly moral themes.

Start worrying, Matt.

Grace, redemption, and agape
The show's handling of complex themes works on a grander scale as well. Entire seasons work around a central point, and long-term character arcs chronicle particular struggles. This is what makes the show tick: Realistic characters who grow, learn, and face the ramifications of their actions and ghosts of their past. Problems and temptations don't vanish each week when the music swells.

One of the series' frequently visited topics is redemption. Angel, Buffy's first love, is a century-old vampire plagued by guilt for the wrongs he committed. (Humans lose their souls when they become vampires, which makes it more convenient for them to commit brutality.) Decades ago, Angel was cursed with getting his soul back while still having the temptations and memories of a savage. In a constant search for redemption, Angel (now on his own WB show) does good deeds and fights for the wronged.

Other character developments and actions do not fit as nicely with Christianity. But to the show's credit, issues such as sex and witchcraft are handled (usually) honestly and without glorification.

As for witchcraft, last year's season finale capped off a long-running storyline tracing Willow's budding fascination with magic. At first, the bookworm found it innocent and enticing. Over a few years however, simple tinkering (like levitating pencils) led to darker business. Witchcraft consumed her and hurt those around her. A personal tragedy sent her off the deep end. She killed a human (something taken seriously on Buffy) and threatened others. Willow, with black eyes and dark clothes, raised a pagan temple to use its powers to end the world.

But someone stopped her. It wasn't the chosen one with her super strength. Nor was it someone fighting her witchcraft with more witchcraft. Instead, a friend since kindergarten stood in her way—not armed with a crossbow, but with love.

"You've been my best friend my whole life," Xander told her. "If we are all going to end, where else would I want to be? I know you are in pain and I know you are about to do something apocalyptically stupid but … it doesn't matter, I still love you."

Hatred, vengeance, and witchcraft turned Willow evil, but Xander's unconditional love showed that no sinner is beyond grace. Moments like this explain why Christians such as myself watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

(Note: I realize the classification of witchcraft as evil is going to be offensive to a lot of people here. I also realize the writer either doesn't get, or is writing as if he doesn't get that the show didn't actually promote the idea that witchcraft=evil, but rather, that abuse of power=evil. Still, he got a lot of the themes. No idea if he's literally a fundy, but I'm not sure how literal Matt was being in using the term, either.)


Connie Neil - Dec 10, 2003 8:11:00 pm PST #6850 of 10001
brillig

I realize the classification of witchcraft as evil is going to be offensive to a lot of people here

Baby steps, Cindy. At least the whole thing of Willow being gay was a non-starter in the evil race.


WildDemon Cornelius - Dec 10, 2003 9:43:01 pm PST #6851 of 10001
Take your fingers off it, don't you dare touch it, you know it don't belong to you, to you...

He didn't seem to mention that Xander's a carpenter, or that he was sent by the wise father figure (Giles) to save the world. I'm not saying that "Grave" was pure Christian allegory (I'm not even really a Christian myself; don't ask me what I am, I'll let you know when I figure out), but the parallels are there.


Sean K - Dec 10, 2003 9:48:13 pm PST #6852 of 10001
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty

I realize the classification of witchcraft as evil is going to be offensive to a lot of people here.

I actually get rather amused by the seriously wacky ideas that fundies get about witchcraft, as if left unattended, people will be raising demons and flinging fireballs around.

It makes me want to ask them if they've been taking their meds.


Gleebo - Dec 11, 2003 2:13:53 am PST #6853 of 10001
"God...my brilliance is now becoming a bit of a burden...get back to me." Dr. Cox - Scrubs

Anyone notice how Spike is just lurking around in those South Park Buffy pictures.


Volans - Dec 11, 2003 4:04:55 am PST #6854 of 10001
move out and draw fire

if left unattended, people will be raising demons and flinging fireballs around

Well, I know *I* would be.

WDC, I like the Xander-is-Jesus idea, but see, now I'm wishing he'd been stabbed in the side or had a nail driven through his hands or something, rather than losing an eye.


Gleebo - Dec 11, 2003 4:29:45 am PST #6855 of 10001
"God...my brilliance is now becoming a bit of a burden...get back to me." Dr. Cox - Scrubs

Anyone else get a good riotous laugh out of the article about violence on TV which referenced Buffy. So funny that they are so adamant about this. The more serious they are, the funnier it is to me.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer -- 11/17/98 8:00 p.m. WB

Buffy beheads a demon with a battle axe.

Would a pinwheel or lolipop have got the job done? Doubt it!

Brimstone -- 11/06/98 8:00 p.m. Fox

A rapist who escaped from hell comes into a woman's bedroom wearing a devil mask. He wrestles with the woman, tossing her into a glass table, then onto the bed. He jumps on top of her on the bed. She is holding a gun, and shoots him several times in the chest at point blank range. The gun shots have no effect on him. It is implied that he goes on to rape her.

Zeke attempts to send the rapist back to hell by shooting him in the eyes, but to no avail. Zeke later corners the rapist. He picks up a garden spade and is shown thrusting it downward several times (presumably into the rapist’s head, thereby destroying his eyes and sending him back to hell).

I think they mean shovel when they say garden spade, and by Zeke they mean Pat...seriously, did they even check for a tribal mask?

The X-Files – 11/15/98 9:00 p.m. Fox

A woman bangs her head against the glass window of a police car. All of a sudden, blood spatters against the window and the woman collapses in the back seat of the police car. Investigators discover that her head exploded.

I blame the media for people's urge to do anything just to get on "COPS"... Millennium -- 11/06/98 9:00 p.m. Fox

Agent Hollis walks into an empty house. In a back room she finds what appears to be an autopsy table. She goes through another door, and finds a room that appears to be covered in blood. There is a hose of some kind that is dripping blood, the walls appear to be coated in blood, and on the wall there is a meat hook. On a table she sees a pair of bloody gloves, bloody knives, etc... There is a tub that appears to be full of blood. Hollis sees a skull on a table.

So what's wrong with a homebased meat locker?

Profiler – 11/14/98 10:00 p.m. NBC

Raymond places a sheet of plastic over his mother's face and begins to suffocate her. She is trying to fight back, but Raymond is overpowering her. He has his hands on the side of her head, pulling the plastic tightly over her face. She struggles to breath, and we can hear her gasping for air. Sounds like a missed opportunity for an in show Saran wrap to me

Boston Public – 11/13/00 8:00 p.m. Fox

Two boys get in a fight in the classroom. One of the boys bites a piece of the other boy’s ear off. The victim stands up, blood running all over his shirt. The biter spits the piece of ear out of his mouth and it hits Harvey in the forehead

Harvey was asking for it by stretching Van Gough appreciation from a week to all semester.

ER – 11/02/00 10:00 p.m. NBC

Luka slams a mugger into an iron gate, then slams the mugger’s head into concrete until it bleeds.

Im sure he was a mugger with a heart of gold and didn't deserve this at all

Buffy the Vampire Slayer -- 11/14/00 8:00 p.m. WB

Buffy fights a vampire in the graveyard. She kicks him to the ground. She then knocks him onto a gravestone. When Buffy goes to stake him, he pushes the stake into her abdomen. Buffy is shown again with the stake in her. There is blood on her sweater and her hands. We see her pull the stake out of her body.

This blood is way to realistic as compared to the stuff they use on TLC in the ER Trauma shows.


erikaj - Dec 11, 2003 4:34:19 am PST #6856 of 10001
Always Anti-fascist!

But they didn't act like it was ok that Luka did that. The fact that some of us thought about it in our bunks later didn't make it less disturbing for Abby, was it?