It's no accident that Cordelia also suffered and died in the wishverse of The Wish. Vengeance harms everyone, even (especially) the seeker.

You know, as many times I watched "The Wish," I hadn't made that connection. Thank you, Cindy--and I appreciate the clarity of your thoughts on vengeance in the Buffyverse in general as well.

And Katie nails the reason that anyone would have been justified in taking Spike out. Trigger!Spike was actively killing people.

That's a different argument. And to convince me of it, you'll have to convince me that Oz should have been killed while human, because he might have broken out of his cage and killed during a full moon.

Once Spike and the Scoobies realized Spike was a sleeper agent of the First, they shackled him, and were able to keep him from killing again. In fact, he didn't kill again. The closest he came was when he attacked Andrew. Now, if Buffy hadn't been able to subdue him and had killed him while trying to fight him off, that would have been justified. Calculating that he should be killed when not under immediate influence of the trigger flies in the face of the Buffyverse moral code.

What if Xander had been triggered to kill? What if Willow had? What if Buffy had? With the way things have always been treated in the Buffyverse (Oz; drugged Angel in the A:ts episode, Eternity; Dark Willow) there was little support for this kind of action.

What's more important though, is that it wasn't the point of the story. The point of the story was that Wood and Giles were wrong. (Buffy was wrong in the other way, in that she wasn't taking it seriously enough, but that's another issue). You can tell W&G were wrong, because they lied and operated under false pretenses to do what they wanted to do.

There's a big difference between saying, "I wish Spike had been staked because I don't like his storyline" and calling staking him in a cold, calculated manner - any kind of justice.

Well, I do wish he'd been staked because I don't like his storyline :) But I don't see a parallel between Spike and Willow/Xander because Spike is a vampire. In the Buffyverse, vampires have had to prove themselves worthy of not being staked. Angel has done this. Spike did it in Season 5. But events of S6 and S7 make me feel that he's not worthy anymore. I really don't think we'll be convincing each other either way. Especially since I'm totally aware that my view of Spike is skewed because of Spuffy. Spike could perform the most selfless act ever at this point and I'd still like to see him staked because the stories they've told have made me just abhor the character.

This is a place where the season didn't work for me. Emotionally, I want Snarky McHotperson to stick around. However, I haven't been shown what Buffy sees in Spike. He wasn't (pre-chip-removal) a very effective fighter, even though Buffy kept saying he was.

I would have liked to have seen a lot more evidence of Buffy depending on him emotionally, not just her saying she did. If you're going to play it as "I can't explain why, but I NEED him", you have to back it up subliminally.

Transported and edited from PF board

Victor's article:

a grief-filled witch driven to mass destruction by the murder of her lover, pulled back from the abyss by the love of her friends (accompanied by a not-so-subtle Biblical observation from Buffy‚s sideman, Xander: "You‚re not the only one with powers, you know. You may be a hopped-up überwitch, but this carpenter can dry-wall you into the next century")

So Xander will die, but rise after three days?

heh. Then I can create a new expletive!

"Great Jesus with an eye patch!"

Can be shortened to "Jesus with an eyepatch!"

And Katie nails the reason that anyone would have been justified in taking Spike out. Trigger!Spike was actively killing people.

Oh, I actually don't think they were justified, for what it's worth. Spike should've been confined while they concentrated on finding other options for deactivating the trigger. Hell, Spike himself should've been suggesting that he be restrained - which he did earlier in the season, didn't he? As it was, he was a threat to everyone around him, including Buffy, and I'm not impressed with his unwillingness to accept that and take appropriate action.

Wood was acting out of a desire for vengeance, and Giles was... well, Giles is very weird this season anyway, but inasmuch as I can make any sense of him he was pretty clearly feeling desperate and powerless in the face of a Buffy who he thought was going seriously off the rails.

Daniel, you are fabulously evil. I love it.

This is a place where the season didn't work for me. Emotionally, I want Snarky McHotperson to stick around. However, I haven't been shown what Buffy sees in Spike. He wasn't (pre-chip-removal) a very effective fighter, even though Buffy kept saying he was.

I would have liked to have seen a lot more evidence of Buffy depending on him emotionally, not just her saying she did. If you're going to play it as "I can't explain why, but I NEED him", you have to back it up subliminally.

Yes. I feel like they squandered a lot of potential (the interesting kind, not the pimply, whinging kind) this season.

Daniel, you are fabulously evil. I love it.

I probably should have shaded or blurred it a bit, but the obviousness of the sprayed-on eyepatch just seemed to fit.

And thanks.

I'll be going to hell now...

Save a comfy couch for us.