That would have worked soooooooooooooo infinitely much better. I think that's an example where the metaphor can get at more truth than reality.

I should go write for Mutant Enemy, except for the part where I can't write and the commute to Santa Monica would totally blow.

I used to think it wouldln't have been better, but y'all are sending me over to the AV side.

That would have worked soooooooooooooo infinitely much better. I think that's an example where the metaphor can get at more truth than reality.

But aren't you left with the same problem? If it's a metaphor for rape, how can Buffy forgive him? Or is it a metaphor for something else? Or is it just better to dress the rape up as something else?

I think, if he had tried to turn her into a vampire, I would have bought it as a desperate act, and more in tune with the character, and also as a catalyst for him saying, "If I can't change her, I need to change me."

Since they wrote Buffy (in S7) as having an emotional need to have Spike around, this would have worked better for me.

Had he come back, and they'd been all business, (because he is a powerful warrior to have on her side in hand-to-hand combat, and because Buffy is a big redemptionist, herself), I would have felt the rape attempt was okay as a catalyst for his soul search.

And then of course, they should have written it as a soul search.

Well you could argue it's ME's job to pose questions, and it's up to us to bring our own answers. Look at it this way, it's made a lot of people think more deeply on this subject than they might otherwise have done

I think that's true to some extent, but because the reason there is a Buffy, was to allow a pretty, young thing to take back the night, it's discouraging to see her have this unexplained emotional need for Spike.

And personally, here's why: Without them showing me why Buffy still has this emotional need - here's how I guess at Buffy's thought and emotional processes.

• She knows they had rough sex

• She knows he was an evil vampire she consented to

• She knows she used him

• She ends up with some self blame.

Now she earned that blame as it pertains to their consensual relationship. BUT BUT BUT - my hero should be (I can't think of the right word, but let's try) mature enough to realize, that no matter what, she should not blame herself because someone else assaulted her, and wouldn't take no for an answer.

Is she responsible for entering into a consensual relationship with someone who was, as she liked to remind him, an evil, souless, thing? Sure. But since at least Intervention (if not before), they'd built a steady trust between them. During their sexcapades, they built up a lot of sexual trust. So even though she was stupid to trust him initially, once she did, he reaffirmed that trust for a (relatively) long time. Once the demon-eggs thing happened (despite how stupid anyone thinks it is as plot device) - she realized or remembered what he was, that she couldn't trust him, and broke off from him.

Yet I can't see how this remaining emotional attachment to Spike in S7, (and calling him a "hottie" a few times throughout the season) is coming from a woman who knows it's not her fault in some way, that he tried to rape her.

Because, darn it Buffy, it's not your fault he tried to rape you.

But I don't think they wrote my Buffy so that she knows that. And I wanted Buffy to know that. I really wanted Buffy to know that.

But aren't you left with the same problem?

I think the difference for me is what he did next. And what he is. He's been saying she's like him, he tries to make her like him, and then goes and makes himself more like her. He's addressing his vampirism -- adding a soul instead of removing hers. I find that more consistent.

But I don't think they wrote my Buffy so that she knows that.

I'll have to watch it all again to see if Buffy knows that or not. However, I suspect you are, as usual, correct.

I think the difference for me is what he did next. And what he is. He's been saying she's like him, he tries to make her like him, and then goes and makes himself more like her. He's addressing his vampirism -- adding a soul instead of removing hers. I find that more consistent.

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean here.

UTTAD - Maybe it's because humans with souls commit rape.

The only vampire with a soul that we've seen (other than Spike), does not feed on humans.

Well you could argue it's ME's job to pose questions, and it's up to us to bring our own answers.

ME's job is to tell me a really great story, not pose questions. The writers will always tell you that the bottom line is that they're telling stories. Sometimes the storytellers trip and fall on the way, and deliver the scrambled eggs coated in carpet lint and cat hair because they either don't have time, or don't care enough for the guests they've invited to dinner to clean it off.

As an audience, we can pick out the cat hair and carpet lint to find the meal, or excuse ourselves and get some take-out.

But aren't you left with the same problem?

Nope. Because the metaphor isn't always sex or rape.

Spike's S6 angle was that Buffy was like him. When frustrated by that, there are two ways to resolve it -- make her like him (attempt, fail), or make him like her (by getting a soul).

That way everything is metaphorical, instead of attempting to address an unmetaphorical act with a metaphorical bandage.

Maybe it's because humans with souls rape.

Cindy: Sorry which post are you refering to?