UTTAD - Maybe it's because humans with souls commit rape.

The only vampire with a soul that we've seen (other than Spike), does not feed on humans.

Well you could argue it's ME's job to pose questions, and it's up to us to bring our own answers.

ME's job is to tell me a really great story, not pose questions. The writers will always tell you that the bottom line is that they're telling stories. Sometimes the storytellers trip and fall on the way, and deliver the scrambled eggs coated in carpet lint and cat hair because they either don't have time, or don't care enough for the guests they've invited to dinner to clean it off.

As an audience, we can pick out the cat hair and carpet lint to find the meal, or excuse ourselves and get some take-out.

But aren't you left with the same problem?

Nope. Because the metaphor isn't always sex or rape.

Spike's S6 angle was that Buffy was like him. When frustrated by that, there are two ways to resolve it -- make her like him (attempt, fail), or make him like her (by getting a soul).

That way everything is metaphorical, instead of attempting to address an unmetaphorical act with a metaphorical bandage.

Maybe it's because humans with souls rape.

Cindy: Sorry which post are you refering to?

That way everything is metaphorical, instead of attempting to address an unmetaphorical act with a metaphorical bandage.

Okay, I can see that.

ME's job is to tell me a really great story, not pose questions.

For me great stories do pose questions. Each to their own and all that.

As much as I think Seeing Red as an episode worked, the reasons I think it worked are the same reasons I think that their efforts to get past it in S7 failed like a failing thing that skipped finals. In that light, I wish they'd gone with attempted vamping.

Ah well.

Water. Bridge. Bad writing.

It's also made me think the writing staff is very disorganised and shortsighted.

Yes, this.

I think the difference for me is what he did next. And what he is. He's been saying she's like him, he tries to make her like him, and then goes and makes himself more like her. He's addressing his vampirism -- adding a soul instead of removing hers. I find that more consistent.

With this, ita has converted me. Somebody send her and appliance or something.

With this, ita has converted me. Somebody send her and appliance or something.

I think for the rape/sire theory of season six and seven, all one gets is a mellon baller.

Attempted vamping rather than attempted rape would have been MUCH better IMHO, because you have that added level of removal. I think the reason BtVS worked so well in seasons 1-3 was that they used supernatural metaphors for very heavy problems. This got diluted by Season 5 - possibly because the metaphorless death of Joyce was so effective. In any event, using the supernatural distanced the viewer from what was going on and also made the ethical issues much easier to shape, because Joss et al were creating their own reality & it's perfectly acceptable to create a morality that fits that.

I have this theory that ME considered having Spike vamp Buffy, but opted not to because they'd used that as a date rape metaphor earlier in the season (in All The Way) and didn't want to repeat themselves.

Maybe it's because humans with souls rape.

Cindy: Sorry which post are you refering to?

I think I was tossing out a reason why I think an attempted siring would have worked better than the attempted rape (for me) since they were going to have Buffy continue to have an emotional attachment to Spike, and continue to call him a hottie.

It might have been in response to the following, but I'm not sure now.

But aren't you left with the same problem? If it's a metaphor for rape, how can Buffy forgive him? Or is it a metaphor for something else? Or is it just better to dress the rape up as something else?