Umm I think leaving a rapist alone with someone stunningly beautiful is probably even a worse mistake then leaving them alone with someone of average appearence. I know rape is primarly a crime of violence - but isn't someon vulnerable and sexually attractive even more at risk? Maybe not.

Spike raped Buffy because of who she was. If there'd been a reason to rape Dawn in his twisted rationale, I don't think her looks would have had the slightest bearing on it. It would have been because of her relationship to Buffy.

Point taken ita - my mind was wandering between the episode and the mroe general question. And I'm not sure it was correct even there.

Well you could argue it's ME's job to pose questions, and it's up to us to bring our own answers

You could, but I wouldn't.

It's also made me think the writing staff is very disorganised and shortsighted.

What ita Said.

Okay fair enough. I never suggested you should.

Perhaps, early on, had Spike said, "I can't help you fight this monster, because I can't bear to face you, because I know what I did to you," maybe not even to Buffy (because that could be interpreted as laying a guilt trip, perhaps to Xander, because he wasn't going to buy any bull from Spike, it would have helped.

Hmm. I'm not sure if I see Spike as Big Emotional Speech, Take Responsibility For What He's Done Guy. It was more like him to show up at the house in "Beneath You" and try to help, without explaining what was up.

I think, if he had tried to turn her into a vampire, I would have bought it as a desperate act, and more in tune with the character, and also as a catalyst for him saying, "If I can't change her, I need to change me."

That would have worked soooooooooooooo infinitely much better. I think that's an example where the metaphor can get at more truth than reality.

B/c right now, I'm kind of in the ita camp, where SR never happened.

That would have worked soooooooooooooo infinitely much better. I think that's an example where the metaphor can get at more truth than reality.

I should go write for Mutant Enemy, except for the part where I can't write and the commute to Santa Monica would totally blow.

I used to think it wouldln't have been better, but y'all are sending me over to the AV side.

That would have worked soooooooooooooo infinitely much better. I think that's an example where the metaphor can get at more truth than reality.

But aren't you left with the same problem? If it's a metaphor for rape, how can Buffy forgive him? Or is it a metaphor for something else? Or is it just better to dress the rape up as something else?

I think, if he had tried to turn her into a vampire, I would have bought it as a desperate act, and more in tune with the character, and also as a catalyst for him saying, "If I can't change her, I need to change me."

Since they wrote Buffy (in S7) as having an emotional need to have Spike around, this would have worked better for me.

Had he come back, and they'd been all business, (because he is a powerful warrior to have on her side in hand-to-hand combat, and because Buffy is a big redemptionist, herself), I would have felt the rape attempt was okay as a catalyst for his soul search.

And then of course, they should have written it as a soul search.

Well you could argue it's ME's job to pose questions, and it's up to us to bring our own answers. Look at it this way, it's made a lot of people think more deeply on this subject than they might otherwise have done

I think that's true to some extent, but because the reason there is a Buffy, was to allow a pretty, young thing to take back the night, it's discouraging to see her have this unexplained emotional need for Spike.

And personally, here's why: Without them showing me why Buffy still has this emotional need - here's how I guess at Buffy's thought and emotional processes.

• She knows they had rough sex

• She knows he was an evil vampire she consented to

• She knows she used him

• She ends up with some self blame.

Now she earned that blame as it pertains to their consensual relationship. BUT BUT BUT - my hero should be (I can't think of the right word, but let's try) mature enough to realize, that no matter what, she should not blame herself because someone else assaulted her, and wouldn't take no for an answer.

Is she responsible for entering into a consensual relationship with someone who was, as she liked to remind him, an evil, souless, thing? Sure. But since at least Intervention (if not before), they'd built a steady trust between them. During their sexcapades, they built up a lot of sexual trust. So even though she was stupid to trust him initially, once she did, he reaffirmed that trust for a (relatively) long time. Once the demon-eggs thing happened (despite how stupid anyone thinks it is as plot device) - she realized or remembered what he was, that she couldn't trust him, and broke off from him.

Yet I can't see how this remaining emotional attachment to Spike in S7, (and calling him a "hottie" a few times throughout the season) is coming from a woman who knows it's not her fault in some way, that he tried to rape her.

Because, darn it Buffy, it's not your fault he tried to rape you.

But I don't think they wrote my Buffy so that she knows that. And I wanted Buffy to know that. I really wanted Buffy to know that.