Another WTF moment for me and amyth: Buffy telling Spike AND Xander that they were her source of strength. Next she'll be telling Angel that. If she tells Andrew...

Am I alone in the not feeling the Andrew love? Every time he's on screen I wish that he were the dead one, not Jonathan.

Top 40! In last Buffy thread!

I don't think so, flea.

I'm another one who decided the AR never happened because it was just too ridiculous, out of character, and, frankly, icky. I hate that what was basically a case of Writers Run Amok defines one of the most interestng relationships on the show for many of you.

And, ooh, #4. Shiny.

Am I alone in the not feeling the Andrew love?

Nope. He's amused me occasionally, but the joke continues to grow thin.

Hey, my tagline is from the letters section on Salon today in response to yesterday's article on how Spike has spoilt the series. Go, Kelly Link!

Top 40?

Edit: Yay!

Will be more contentfull later.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

I'm sticking to jengod's story.

Glottal stops can also begin a word. "of", for example.

Deb, one of the reasons I bought it (why she didn't manage to throw him off right away) was that she'd *just* been injured and was a little off her game, and when he caught her off guard, she hit her back in the same place she'd hit it before, which gave him enough time to get the advantage. She was able to recollect and toss him off, but it took a few seconds of clearing the physical pain, and another few of clearing the emotional shock before she was able to do that.

Yes this. But also yes to whomever said that no way was it actually going to be a rape. I almost want to call it the attempted attempted rape, because while I bought Buffy being caught hurt and off guard, my reaction quickly became, "He's going to get his ass kicked."

And I guess that's where the metaphor breaks down a bit, because in the real world most women don't have that option.

I also never thought Spike was horrified by what he tried to do. I think he was just recognized that Buffy was horrified, and that he made a major mistake, and that's what drove him to the soul.

Misdirection, yes, but I can fanwank him getting that soul two different ways. The first way is that, yes, he did go for the soul, and his words can be interpreted as being, "Now she can get what she deserves, a man with a soul." And his biting those words out were because he was disgusted to have to get a soul to be with her, and he knew that him coming back with a soul would cause all kinds of headaches for all concerned, not the least being Buffy not being able to use, "You're evil" as her excuse any longer.

But my favorite wank is, he didn't know he was getting a soul consciously. So he was too vague with his request, and the "what she deserved" may have meant one thing to him, but that demon wasn't interested in Spike's subjective meaning. He gave Spike a soul because, objectively, that was what Buffy deserved.

Now that conflicts with Spike's speech about going off to get his spark from earlier this season, but not so much. Because I am a master wanker. You see, subconsciously that part of Spike that sired and killed his momma, and didn't eat Willow; that part of him is what made Spike say his request in such a vague manner. And only later, once he had the soul, was he able to understand that.

Two wanks, no waiting.

(Edited to express my pure pleasure at my first numberslutting being the answer to life, the universe and everything)

Oh, and the two things I liked in End of Days -- the Anya/Andrew scene (OK, mostly for "Wheelchair fight!") and the Faith/Buffy scene.

Just staking out a spot in the new thread.

Content? Um, well... I really enjoyed the episode last night. Thought it was a little wierd that the issues that caused Buffy to leave were pretty much dropped, but I could probably justify most with minimal fanwanking. I love that they are tossing in resolutions to some unanswered questions (Miss Kitty Fantastico!) and fully expect Joss to astound us next week. I kind of wish they hadn't shown WhiteWillow (LightWillow?) in the preview. It's cool in that it leads me to believe that my theory about her role in the final battle (which I've had since CwDP) will turn out to be right, but it would've been nice to save it for the HSQ. And now that Andrew has prepared himself for death, who else thinks he will live to tell the story (and sell the film rights) to those who will listen?

Askye, I wanted to pick at a couple of things you said on the last thread:

...I honestly and truly believe that Spike would have raped Buffy.

Right there with you.

I never believed for one minute that Spike every held any kind of true, real love for Buffy. I always saw it as dark, stalkery, obsessive and creepy as hell. Everyone keeps talking about how much Spike loves Buffy and look--here's proof! he made the Buffybot. But how sick and twisted is that? I don't see the Buffybot as a romantic gesture but creepy and stalkery and a horrible thing. He made a big ass shrine to her and stole her clothes and obsessed over her and Buffy knew that and yes there sex was bitter and disfunctional and it should have stopped. But for god sake there was nothing romantic or sweet about Spike's obsession of Buffy.

Spike making the Buffybot and his stalkery, creepy obsession was neither romantic nor sweet. But there was a twisted, perverted type of love there. The kind of love an evil vampire with no soul would have. A selfish, depraved, and squicky kind of love. That's why I believe Souled!Spike's love is real. But as a souled being it manifests itself in healthy, honorable and socially accepted ways. So less of the creepiness and attempts at rape and violence. And more of the romantic and sweet gestures. Standing up for her, watching her back, taking orders from her, holding her etc.

Look at Angelus. As Angel he loved her. As Angelus he wanted to kill all her friends and torture her. Because she made him feel. But we still believe that Angel loves her.

I can not tell you how much I hate what Spike has become. How much I loathe what the writers have done with Spike and Buffy. I truly, honestly believed that when Spike rode off on the motorcycle he was going to get his chip out so he could come back and try to kill Buffy. I never once in a million years thought he'd want a soul so he could come back and be a "good man."

I believed that too. And I don't think evil Spike was capable of the conscious desire to get a soul. But deep down in that twisted love portion of his being, that's what he wanted. And that's what he got.

Buffy has no better reason to stake Spike than Holtz and/or Connor had to kill Angel. The frustration that some people feel over Spike's transformation, mirrors Holtz and Wood's predicament. Is it moral, just or right to stake the souled vampire who killed/attempted to rape before he was souled?