(represses further Spoldemort arguments boiling up to surface of her brain, desperate to be expressed)

Kassto - I'm sorry if my term offended you. But as I said I didn't mean anyone here (there were plenty of people here, myself included who were very into the Spike-Buffy story), and as you yourself wouldn't classify yourself as a nutter, well then, it really has nothing to do with you, does it?

You have to understand, I've spent over a year hearing Spoldemorts tell me Spike didn't try to rape Buffy, that it wasn't attempted rape, but rather "attempted sex." I have had people post to me that if she'd just relaxed, she would have enjoyed it. And I have had people tell me she's a using bitch, to his good, kind, loving self. Feh. I've received emails from people who were conducting a super-seekrit FAX campaign, to deluge Mutant Enemy, Fox and UPN with messages condemning the series finale, WEEKS BEFORE IT EVER AIRED. I have seen these people harass my friends who run Mutant Enemy writer fansites. I'm sick of them. For a while, they ruined my enjoyment of the character Spike, and that pissed me off, because to me, to the end, he was one of the more interesting reasons to tune in. So, if you're one of those people, well then yeah, I would call you a Spoldemort, but mostly because I'm in love with my new term.

This is rather ironic, because although PM Marcontell (heretofore called "Plei" by me -- who mentioned the shippers who could not be named, which made me think of Voldemort, and hence Spoldemort) and I agree on a lot of things about the show, Spike isn't one of them. Don't get me wrong, she doesn't hate him. She's just tired of him taking over the show and the fandom. I'm actually the one that ended BtVS more interested in both him and his relationship with/feelings for Buffy.

But I still think people who love and admire Spike, and are desperately hoping he and Buffy will get together, but hate her and think she's a using bitch have real issues. Who wants a character they love to get together with a using bitch? That's ridiculous. Not saying that about you, mind you - but I am saying it about Spoldemorts.

...

UTTAD - Yes! Phases. Oooh, I loved that. *sigh* You're just trying to get me to hop back on the Good Ship B/X, aren't you?

Cindy Well it's not like you need a big shove in that direction. :-)

And as you know, you speak for me on all things Spike and Buffy.

And as you know, you speak for me on all things Spike and Buffy.

heh. Thank you. I know it's what kept me tuning in when there were actual!car crashes, magick-crack, and jet packs galore. (Okay, maybe I kinda dug the jet packs.)

I actually had a crush on a guy once, who if he had returned feelings, would have completely ended my crush. He was adoreable and married, and seemed a decent guy, Of course had he returned feelings, he would not have been a decent guy. Never meant to be, but he was all pretty and manly.

How about if he'd returned feelings, but refused to act on them due to his existing obligations? Y'know, due to him being all noble and shit.

< steps carefully around Spike/Buffy/Xander discussion>

How about if he'd returned feelings, but refused to act on them due to his existing obligations?

Then you're living in a romance novel or a soap opera.

Seriously, if he's really a good guy, he can feel whatever he feels, but he shouldn't *acknowledge it,* cos that's the first step towards acting. If he reciprocates and he's ready to end his marriage ( for other reasons, not just because of the mutual crushage), he shouldn't tell you until after his wife knows he wants out.

On my particular moral planet, anyhow.

That might be a semantic issue. I'd read "returned feelings" as "liked you a lot". But he wasn't going to do anything, since he liked his wife and obligations also.

Then you're living in a romance novel or a soap opera.

t looks around Damn. I knew something was amiss here. That explains why I keep running into people with names like 'Winter' and 'Reynaldo'.

Eh, I know it happens IRL. I just get all tangled up in the various relationships in a soap opera-y way.

Anyhow.

How about if he'd returned feelings, but refused to act on them due to his existing obligations? Y'know, due to him being all noble and shit.

Hypothetically, if the woman were married, I'd say the noble thing to do would be to pretend he did not return the feelings. I don't think the other is as noble as it might seem to people. ijs.

If he reciprocates and he's ready to end his marriage ( for other reasons, not just because of the mutual crushage), he shouldn't tell you until after his wife knows he wants out.

I'd go further and say until he is out.

They established that "you're like one of the girls!" dynamic very early on, and never wavered.

I quite agree. In fact, the only time I ever suspected it might waver was early on in season seven, when they started taking on that married couple dynamic, especially with Dawn.

With a few small exceptions, I never saw Xander's interest in Buffy as all that genuine anyway. Not that he was faking or anything. Just - he didn't see Willow that way, there weren't a lot of other girls giving him a second look, and suddenly this cool and pretty girl is hanging out with them and being all nice and hey!presto, fixation.

I think some of his insecurity about why she never bit is real - because he didn't think of Willow that way it would never have occurred to him that it had anything to do with her. But for Buffy, Xander was pretty off limits right from the start (and Angel was being all dark and mysterious, billowy coat King of Pain) so her mind/heart/other organs never went down that path.