Plei, I know you are taking my comment about the using a little personally because you experienced it, and I'm sorry about that. Plenty of people I think are nice and intelligent do things I find morally reprehensible, like taking their husband's names, or giving their daughters Barbie dolls, or driving SUVs. But I stand by what I said--snuggling with someone when you know they feel differently than you do is using. That Spike consents to being used doesn't make it any more right.
Monday night, after the discussion, I went to my husband and presented the situation in the abstract for him (because he hates the show and would have snarked at me if I'd indicated it was about the show), and he also agreed it was using. Which may mean nothing more than that I married someone who has the same values as I do.
And again, I'll just have to go with the whole "Buffy really is open to a relationship with Spike" fanwank because I want to like Buffy.
I've been mulling (and revelling in this really cool Spike dream I had that i'm not sharing because I don't know ANY of you that well), but anyway...
They didn't know that that amulet had the potential of killing the guy wearing it, did they? All they knew was "If you've got a soul and you're stronger than human, put this on and something will happen to save the day. Something aboug cleansing. Or scrubbing bubbles." Yeah, heroic death and all, but not a death he chose. He ran with it, because he's like that, but I don't believe he had a choice about it. Unless he did have the option for running for it there at the end, but it looked more like he was pinned by some kind of possession to me.
What does using mean to you, Wenda? I see a situation in which two consenting adults get more out of it than if they hadn't, come out with less pain (both, not just the one with the "upper hand") as not using.
Someone has to suffer for me to see it as using. Spike didn't. Buffy didn't. Who lost?
Given that Angel suggested Buffy not use it, I think there was danger attached. And he seemed pretty resigned when he took it, not just when it kicked in.
They didn't know that that amulet had the potential of killing the guy wearing it, did they?
Not as such, but as Angel said, they really didn't know
what
it could do. Also, even if Spike wasn't physically able to leave, his attitude throughout the whole thing showed that he would have made that choice even with full foreknowledge of what would happen.
I'm wondering if the "cleansing" did something to (soulless) vampires everywhere, not just the UberVamps. We'll have to wait and see.
OK, I just got a plot bunny for a story about the softball slayer girl. Please restrain me before I commit cheesey bad baseball fic.
Love Joy Press. She's Simon Reynolds' wife, and a lovely woman (I went out to dinner with them yonks ago. She's also the best feminist rock critic around.
Here's hoping Annika Sorenstam got some Slayer in her.
