We'll have to agree to disagree about this. I do think that it's better to ask rather than to assume, because even in face-to-face conversation things can be misconstrued. It's exponentially more likely to happen on-line.

Even asking can feel like a pile on online, at least in a place this fast-moving, if enough people are bothered. It's a tough call. Maybe, hindsight being 20/20 and all, things would be smoother if the first time someone's bothered, they bring it up rather than allowing it to build. But I've seen that go as poorly as taking a wait and see/get sick of waiting approach, and this applies to more than just new people.

I think these threads, in particular, could use a little less growling, from everyone, self not just included but front and center. I still feel like I should have stepped in and told people to chill when Megan's hubby was getting snarled at, but I thought Wolfram said everything that needed to be said, and that if I said anything, it would have come out wrong and made things worse, so I kept my mouth shut.

I also love that the guacamole metaphor has already gone from the littlle tale itself to just a guacamole reference, then to "guac" and now "guac-ed."

Yes, this.

I agree with you, Katie. Though I think that Bev was probably kidding, I think that many have adopted it as the norm.

I expect I should probably apologize for starting the kerfuffle, since I was the one who slapped down beej last night. As someone way upthread posted, however, it wasn't the list of examples she cited that made me bristle but the header, posted in with no qualifications. I posted my response to that one post, since I hadn't seen beej say anything problematic in any of the other threads I've been reading.

I could plead the late hour and the cold medication, but I won't. I don't feel that the board is any more prickly right now than it has been in the past -- it goes in cycles, as Allyson says.

Additionally, there's a lot of indication in the FAQ already about how this is a unique forum, that new members are strongly encouraged to lurk and learn the community. I like the guacamole analogy but I doubt it would help people any more than the material already there.

I don't want us to get a reputation for being unwelcoming, but I don't think it's out of line for me or anyone else to point out where they thought someone misspoke. Perhaps I could have been more diplomatic, but I don't think the response justifies a wholesale rethinking of how we as a community interact.

Even asking can feel like a pile on online,

Which is why we so often add 'honest question' or the like to a 'what do you mean' post. Because we want to make sure that the question isn't perceived as accusatory. Because the reader of the post might put their own spin on the 'tone'.

By time I finally delurked I had been reading about everyone here forever. I was that creepy stalker stranger that knows your birthday and favorite color but you've never seen them before.

Tina is me, but I'm not much for running up and introducing myself to strangers in real life either. Jumping in here is sometimes a lot like double dutch, and it's hard to get the rhythm.

But all those things are formed by the words in the box, except the issues, and as I said, if more than one person is having tone issues, then the words in the box probably have a lot more to do with it than the issues of an individual poster.

I agree with this, and I think topic may come into play as well. With the subject that was at hand (the war, do we belong there, etc.), people were already getting a bit tetschy (I know I was - it's one of the reasons I decided to get off-line and go to bed). When discussing hot button topics I would hope I was at least aware that I should tread lightly.

A newbie might not be aware that gerunds are a hot button issue around here, but I would hope they'd realize that politics, almost by definition, is a hot button issue just about everywhere.

I'm not sure that said what I wanted it to say, but it's as close as I can get this close to the end of the work day. Any way, I know a few occasions where I've done my own cha-cha thorugh the guac. I like to think of it as a rite of passage. I just hope I've avoided stumbling through it too much during my time here.

eta and "Lurk before you leap" definitely did me a world of good before I joined officially here.

It seems to me that there were a lot of people delurking recently and none had the kind of trouble beej had--maybe she came on too strongly. I dunno.

She raised my hackles because not only did she seem like she was coming on too strongly, but on her first day she was excitedly burbling in the F2F thread about how excited she was to go to the F2F. Excitement is good, but my exact reaction was "Who are you? Do you know us? Do you realize that this event is not a con, but more of a yearly meeting of people who already know each other? Do you realize your helpful suggestions sound like you want to take over because You Know Best?"

To me, she seemed not only determined to become bestest friends with us, but wanted to tell us how we should think about things. Those two behaviours made me twitch.

I went back and read the stuff in Minearverse. I don't think she was jumped on, I think it just seemed like it due to x-postings. Also, I think the fact that there have been other newbies who have been posting about all sorts of things and not raised the hackles of a cross-section of the board is pretty telling.

Jumping in here is sometimes a lot like double dutch, and it's hard to get the rhythm.

Tina and Ginger are me.

I have lurked since TT days, with the occasional smattering of posts. A while back there was a discussion about making the site navigation easier for newbies and I wanted to say, how about toning down the "welcome wagon", but did not know a nice way to say it, so I kept quiet.

I adore this forum, hence the lurkage, but there are times when it feels like if you are not part of the inner circle, you are not welcome.

Frank! What's all that green on your face?

t ducks flying bowl of guac