But all those things are formed by the words in the box, except the issues, and as I said, if more than one person is having tone issues, then the words in the box probably have a lot more to do with it than the issues of an individual poster.

We'll have to agree to disagree about this. I do think that it's better to ask rather than to assume, because even in face-to-face conversation things can be misconstrued. It's exponentially more likely to happen on-line.

Maybe our in-between solution is to add the guac metaphor to the cautionary 'fitting in is your own job' stuff in ettiquitte. It might inspire a little added caution.

This could be a good idea - letting new people know that even if it happens and there's a guacamole-stepping or a punch-bowl tripping, even on the great new shoes of a longtime poster, it doesn't mean that you're not welcome at the party anymore, just that it takes some time and effort to clean the shoes, and have a new song playing in the background for people to pay attention to other things, and let you fit in the party and have fun again.

I don't know much about the culture of any other boards, but maybe letting people know that even if you turn over the table with the drinks, it can mean nothing in the long run - knowing this in advance - make it easier for any newbie who may feel 'piled on'.

We could have a whole section about Famous Guacamole-Tipping Incidents.

No?

Maybe our in-between solution is to add the guac metaphor to the cautionary 'fitting in is your own job' stuff in ettiquitte. It might inspire a little added caution.

I agree with this. I also love that the guacamole metaphor has already gone from the littlle tale itself to just a guacamole reference, then to "guac" and now "guac-ed."

We expect new people to be patient and acclimate themselves to the community, and we should give them the same courtesies.

I don't have the time. Sink or swim. /jerk

Sink or swim. /jerk

There's always the good cop/bad cop approach....

Crossposting is what leads to the "piling on" effect, and that'll never change -- we crosspost about everything! In a group this big, there will often be four people with the same reaction to a give post, posting at the same time. Sometimes it's funny, sometimes it feels like piling on. It is what it is.

This makes a lot of sense to me. I wasn't around for all the specific cases of the stepped-on toes, but when I was, I held my posts because I figured someone else was going to notice the behavior and comment. Plus, who gets nominated to be "good cop" or the one to gently steer the obnoxious newbie in the right direction. Each buffista's style is different on how they deal with the frustration of feeling freaked out by a newcomer who starts out immediately stomping on the toes (whether it's inadvertant or not).

I think we continue to learn and each newbie is (and will likely continue to be) treated individually. I think in beej's case, it was definitely the individual and not the "newbieness" that had more to do with this situation.

It seems to me that there were a lot of people delurking recently and none had the kind of trouble beej had--maybe she came on too strongly. I dunno. I'm not ready to sign on for any behavior modification just yet.

"You cow! Maybe you should watch where you put those clodhoppers. Do I know you?"

But--but-- It's so apt. And of Our Culture!

Er, well, I kinda wish it were less of Our Culture, because it makes me flinch. But we had this discussion in Natter last year, and I discovered that what I see as politeness a lot of Buffistas see as fakery. Which was, you know, interesting, in the sort of "um, you're kidding, right?" way that my brain usually reserves for particularly wacky religious outlooks on life. (That's not meant as a slam, just as a description of how gobsmacked I was to realize that our perspectives were so different.)

Though I should add that I don't really care about this particular case one way or the other.

I'm always for patience and kindness - but I'm also for aggressive forthrightness. So I'm in the middle here.

But I will say this - with an election coming I think we will see more and not less thread drift toward politics. I am wary of it. I was an active participant in the TT politics threads and while I read a lot of great stuff and met interesting people - I saw some stuff that made me want to never ever turn the computer on again. But short of saying "we can't talk politcs" this is going to happen - and it undoubteldy will lead to kerfuffles. Just something to keep in mind.

Yes, it would be great if new people lurked and figured out the way the board worked.

There is a fine line to this as well. I lurked for too long. By time I finally delurked I had been reading about everyone here forever. I was that creepy stalker stranger that knows your birthday and favorite color but you've never seen them before. It's made every post a little weird for me, honestly. As I am sure it has for others.

I'm don't regret delurking and am not fishing for validation; I think I'll always feel "new" but I'm cool with my place as well. IJS - fine line.