The money was too good. I got stupid.

Jayne ,'Ariel'


Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!  

We open it up, we talks the talk, we votes, we shuts it down. This thread is to free up Bureaucracy for daily details as we hammer out the Big Issues towards a vote. Open only when a proposal has been made and seconded according to Buffista policy (Which we voted on!). If this thread is closed, hie thee to Bureaucracy instead!


§ ita § - Apr 09, 2009 3:40:04 am PDT #9025 of 10289
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I loved the Leverage discussions in Procedurals, for instance.

Cable Drama, you mean, surely.

since TV-discussion EXPLICITLY isn't the purpose of that thread, I don't think it's fair to try to make it the default for such discussions

Instructions on how to use Natter for TV are in the header, so I don't see why you think it's explicitly not for TV--it's explicitly where TV without another homes is recommended for.

it's for (slash-friendly) Genre Shows past and present

?? And what about unslashy Genre shows--do we just not talk about them, since Natter is EXPLICITLY not for TV?

Boxed Set is for ALL genre shows, and is slash-friendly. That's so not the same thing, and I'm surprised at the conflation and narrowing of the scope still happening--it has been talked about as the default sff thread since during the squish discussion.

I enjoy me some slash, but our world is bigger than that.


Ailleann - Apr 09, 2009 3:40:19 am PDT #9026 of 10289
vanguard of the socialist Hollywood liberal homosexualist agenda

ita, since you've made the changes to the board, where are we in regard to space issues and quantities of threads? I know that's been a question in the past when we've had these discussions, so we might as well get it out of the way now.

For myself, as a Tivo kid, I like having TV more spread out, because then I know where I can go to talk about shows I have watched, and where to avoid for shows I haven't yet. I'm also a Big Thread slacker, so...


§ ita § - Apr 09, 2009 3:52:36 am PDT #9027 of 10289
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Here's how most of the bucket threads got created:

Open temporary, TV-focused threads, so we can see if other shows inspire good discussion, in an environment somewhat more categorized and TV-focused than is Natter. They will only accommodate discussion of those shows which do not already have a TV thread home at Buffistas.org. These are not pilots for new threads; they're just space to experiment, so they are offered as a package deal. They are temporary and will be closed on June 1, 2007. White fonted TV talk will still be allowed in Natter.

When it's all over, if we choose, we can have a somewhat better-than-hypothetical conversation in Bureaucracy about how/if/whether we should try to accommodate a wider range of TV discussion, outside of Natter, and if that's even possible to do, in a way which respects and enhances our community.

Network Drama: for discussion of dramatic programming on those networks generally available, even to those viewers who do not have cable TV -- ABC, CBS, The CW, FOX, NBC, and PBS.

Cable Drama: for discussion of dramatic programming on cable TV outlets which are not currently covered in our Premium Cable thread. (Drama is split between Network and Cable for the duration of this experiment, because an all-inclusive drama thread might be too big, and not conducive for sustained discussion, and because people's viewing habits differ).

Comedy: for discussion of scripted, fictional shows (think The Office, Scrubs, HIMYM etc.).

Non-Fiction TV: for discussion of non-scripted (a.k.a. 'reality shows') programming, documentaries, and the like.


Jon B. - Apr 09, 2009 3:52:56 am PDT #9028 of 10289
A turkey in every toilet -- only in America!

I'm with Austin, tiggy, le nubian and Fay. Hardly ever poke my head into Natter. And, like Theo, I think the usage Megan posted for the TV bucket threads is healthy.


le nubian - Apr 09, 2009 3:55:43 am PDT #9029 of 10289
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

ita, cable drama of course! :-)

I can't remember what happened last week, much less where a discussion took place 2 months ago.


Frankenbuddha - Apr 09, 2009 3:55:55 am PDT #9030 of 10289
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

I'm in total agreement with ita w/r/t this particular discussion.


§ ita § - Apr 09, 2009 4:00:16 am PDT #9031 of 10289
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

On the 21st of June 2007, we voted on an original cable drama thread.

And then on the 26th of August 2008, a vote was had for a Procedurals and a Comedy.

So those two survived a great deal of discussion to get brought into the world, in two rounds.

I didn't see a separate vote for Non-Fiction but I'm sure I missed that, and Network Drama never flew.


§ ita § - Apr 09, 2009 4:02:47 am PDT #9032 of 10289
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Ailleann, we're good on space issues as far as those bucket threads go--they were never going to be a problem because of too much resources used. The question (I think)--are too little resources used?

And lo, we are hit by thread inertia. Unless specifically mentioned in the creation proposal, we as a community get very used to the threads we have, and it will most surely take more justification than I've seen so far to shut them down.


Steph L. - Apr 09, 2009 4:24:12 am PDT #9033 of 10289
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe

I'm comfortable with the level of usage that megan posted, since it's clear that they are being used and if people want discussion, they know where to go.

I agree.

Based on that, I would be inclined to close all of them.

In fact, I'm not even clear on what level of use would be acceptable for megan to think they should stay open. 50 posts a month? 100?

Minearverse, for example, has relatively healthy use, but it's generally discussion about crafts or soap operas.

Now, I *want* Minearverse open, so this is NOT a suggestion to close it; I'm just using it as an example. But it seems to me that a low-traffic thread that's being used for its intended topic, even sporadically, is a better candidate for keeping than a higher-traffic thread that is wildly off-topic a large amount of time.


Fred Pete - Apr 09, 2009 4:41:35 am PDT #9034 of 10289
Ann, that's a ferret.

Not a comment on the merits of the proposal, and maybe this has been covered in Bureaucracy.

But I'd like to suggest that the vote be structured to vote yes or no on keeping each thread, as opposed to a single vote on all threads. That way, people who may want to keep some threads and close others aren't forced into an all-or-nothing choice. Because, if level of posting is a factor, it's easier to justify closing Comedy and Premium Cable than Procedurals and Cable Drama.