I also think it was Kat making an non-proliferationist argument who mentioned a single thread

I wasn't making a non-proliferationist argument. In this post Kat "Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!" Jul 25, 2007 12:35:34 pm PDT I was saying that a more honest approach to how we deal with TV is to have single threads per show for every show that people watch and want to discuss. It's honest in that it's probably what would satisfy the people who watch those shows.

And frankly for people who want focused discussion, that's a much more simple approach because it cuts down all of the non-specific-show chatter. It also avoids something like SPN/Boxed Set from happening where people suddenly neither want a new thread but feel like they can't discuss comfortably in the thread they were in.

It also means for people like ND and Kristin who don't want to be spoiled for other things they watch, they can avoid it. And, there's also the added bonus reality that it shunts some discussion that I just don't give a shit about into a place where I never have to deal with it. Kinda like a cats thread for David so he never has to read about them again.

Of course that means a couple of things: there's no cross pollination of other shows by genre and there is greater fragmentation of the community and also a sort of bizarre "me and my 5 friends have our own special place" vibe. The last part, in my opinion, is shitty and it changes the way the community socializes but perhaps that is the way the community feels now: hunker down and give me my thread. Which is whatever it is.

While I AM anti-proliferation, I think single show threads work best to meet the needs of people who are interested in more focused tv discussion.

I wasn't making a non-proliferationist argument.

I apologize-- I misread that and I didn't mean to misrepresent your words. The point I was attempting to make is that I don't really see tons of people advocating and wanting a different thread for everything, just a few posts about it.

I didn't really use the experimentals so I can't comment on their success.

I like the just right sized bucket threads with shows breaking off when they outgrow the bucket. I also like whitefont discussion of shows when they air in Natter.

These things work for me. Spoilers don't bother me because I skim easily and forget stuff quickly.

Quick question: have we ever made a show thread from shows discussed in Natter?

I know we have a couple from shows discussed in Boxed Set.

I agree with Kat about almost everything she just said. except the anti stance. i'm neither anti nor pro.

I do like having dedicated threads to discuss tv shows with the people here, but i also know that if we have a Network Drama thread with no whitefont at all, i'm going to be limited in when i can go in because i just don't stay caught up on my shows anymore. to go even further than that though, i'd probably stay out the thread anyway until i've seen all the shows in question because i'm just not very likely to go back and try to find a post somebody made about a show days ago that i just caught up on. i'm lazy like that.

I am kind of hoping we end up with some kind of thread because if it stays in Natter, i see Natter's post going back up and me not being able to keep up. if it has it's own thread, i'll be able to keep up in both places. hypothetically speaking.

Quick question: have we ever made a show thread from shows discussed in Natter?

I think the the non-fiction and cable threads have shows that were all discussed in Natter at one point (if they were around prior to the threads). Probably premium cable as well (though that would have been mostly Sopranos / Deadwood talk).

Did LOST and VM come out of natter? I don't think LOST ever got discussed in Box Set, despite it being definitely a genre show (either because it wasn't especially media fandom-ish or because that's where all the ALIAS talk was). If so, I think those were the only dedicated threads to come out of there.

It's honest in that it's probably what would satisfy the people who watch those shows.

I don't actually think so. I think in most cases those threads would stagnate and die.

And frankly for people who want focused discussion, that's a much more simple approach because it cuts down all of the non-specific-show chatter. It also avoids something like SPN/Boxed Set from happening where people suddenly neither want a new thread but feel like they can't discuss comfortably in the thread they were in.

Okay, this happened once, and it was unfortunate. But our history of dealing with things when we can see there's a critical mass forming is better, overall. Natter spun out of Buffy. So did Bitches. Due South out of Bitches. (Possibly Smallville and Farscape too, I disremember.) We could see a tidal wave of LOTR coming, so we were able to shunt that out of Natter/Movies ahead of time. Etc.

It also means for people like ND and Kristin who don't want to be spoiled for other things they watch, they can avoid it.

That's the tougher bit, and I'm not sure the best way to handle. But I don't see overlapping Natter and Ded-Thread discussions as a bad thing, personally.

there is greater fragmentation of the community and also a sort of bizarre "me and my 5 friends have our own special place" vibe. The last part, in my opinion, is shitty and it changes the way the community socializes but perhaps that is the way the community feels now: hunker down and give me my thread.

I agree with most of what Kat said. To the above, I think that even if me and my 5 friends had a special thread to talk about, say, Dresden Files (I won't let it go), those of us who wanted to have wider discussions with the community would also be in Natter or Bitches, and probably other threads too. And those of us who didn't wouldn't be in the other threads anyway.

I'm not advocating single-show threads so much as thinking that I don't see how moving tv tak anywhere will necessarily impact the community discussions in Natter and Bitches. Except for removing the issues that apparently keep some people from posting in Natter/Bitches who would if they weren't worried about getting spoiled.

Eh. I'd really like a poll done to find out how many people avoid which threads and why. Is spoilers the problem? Is it whitefont, the annoyance or the lack of it? Is it the fragmentation of discussion? Is it the pace of the posts? Voting is intended to give us the will of the majority, but until we get an idea of how the people as a whole feel, we may not be putting the "right" issues to the vote.

Does that make sense? I mean, we keep voting on this thread and that thread, and we keep having exactly the same arguments/discussions/points made every time. It's solving things for people who want specific threads, but it isn't solving the overall question. Whatever the overall question actually is. I think it's "How do we want our community to be organized, now that the central thing we were organized around is gone?"

Network Drama thread with no whitefont at all

Here we have a point to work from. How about Network Drama with 24 hour whitefont? It can certainly be an option to vote on.

Voting is intended to give us the will of the majority, but until we get an idea of how the people as a whole feel, we may not be putting the "right" issues to the vote.

This is how I feel.