I'm just saying sometimes it feels like that to me. This might be/is an "Aimee" thing.

It's not just an Aimee thing. As soon as the phrase "social capital" pops up, I can't help imagining everyone on the other side of the screen going "I wonder how much I have?" Quantification often leads to hierarchies, and I've got this stupid fetish about egalitarianism and some rank newbie feeling confident enough to stand up and speak their mind without fear.

And someone's going to say, "You mean they can't now?" Somewhere a newbie (got to find a better term) is sitting there going, "I want to say something, but I don't think I dare." To which our hypothetical first someone is going to say, "Well, that's just too bad, isn't it, that they don't have the cojones to speak up?" To which I say, "Yeah, it is, and I wonder why they feel that way?"

And the phrase "Nobody has rights in a private forum" is rarely spoken by those who feel disenfranchised.

I think social capital is an interesting concept, but I feel like talking about it always just results in people taking it the wrong way and in hurt feelings.

Whatever it's worth, I've never seen a post -- including ChiKat's above -- that included the phrase "this is probably going to cost me social capital, but..." that actually made me think less of the person posting it. I suspect the wrong people worry about it in the wrong way, and for the wrong reasons, while people who are actually losing social capital are oblivious or don't care.

Whatever it's worth, I've never seen a post -- including ChiKat's above -- that included the phrase "this is probably going to cost me social capital, but..." that actually made me think less of the person posting it. I suspect the wrong people worry about it in the wrong way, and for the wrong reasons, while people who are actually losing social capital are oblivious or don't care.

I'd concur with that. People don't lose anything by speaking their mind in a reasonable way, or disagreeing with the majority opinion. I don't think less of somebody because they have opinions about cheese which differ from my own. (Even though some of them are PLAINLY INSANE.) In fact, I tend to respect people more who disagree with the prevailing opinion and bother to make that stand in a civil and thoughtful way. On the flipside, I lose respect for people when they are assholes. Who doesn't?

Is this the last bit of progress made in here:

Betsy HP "Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!" Apr 14, 2005 8:25:23 am PDT

My understanding of the bullshit consensus is the following entry in Etiquette:

"Please be aware that posting under multiple pseudonyms annoys some Buffistas. If you use more than one Buffista account for the same person, please identify yourself in the profile of the subsidiary accounts. Thus the secondary account "Zeitgeist" would have the profile entry "this is really Sign O'The Times". This helps people distinguish unlurkers from game-players." [--Betsy]

...

I'd really rather we just let this go, but if not, I'd like to see it go in the FAQ, rather than the etiquette guide, and under a header of "Multiple User Names" in the "Customs and Ritual Practices" section after "Registration" and maybe lightened up a smidge, in tone.

Betsy, how about something like:

We like to know our fellow Buffistas. If you post under more than one user name, you may startle the Buffistas. To mitigate this, please identify yourself in the profile of the secondary account(s). Thus, Bob's secondary account "Likes Carrots" would have something like "This is just Bob" in the tagline, or in the "Your Description" field on the profile page of the "Likes Carrots" account. Similarly, if someone asks of Likes Carrots, "Bob, is that you?" Bob would immediately say, "Oh, yeah. It's just little old me." This helps us distinguish new members from good old Bob, and good old you, too.

And the phrase "Nobody has rights in a private forum" is rarely spoken by those who feel disenfranchised.

Well...no, because feeling "disenfranchised" presupposes a belief in rights.

Sometimes, when I post, I think about how much capital is banked, and how much I'm willing to spend telling someone to fuck themselves. And then I start looking up in a thesaurus better terms for "go fuck yourself," tally up the points for things like, "you know, that's the dumbest shit I've seen on the net, and I've read AOL chatrooms" or, "perhaps you're not thinking that through, is this really what you mean to say, or am I misunderstanding your point?"

Then I divide by pi, and post the appropriate response.

think I'd be a lot harder on ita or Kat or Kristen on the board if they pissed me off here than I would on some newbie. Because that would actually hurt, you know?

I do. That's what I meant by:

It's also useful to not cut them slack when they're are being an asshat.

YAY! 2 clicks up! ALthough, does that imply that I don't normally give reasonable responses? *wink*

Thanks for the cites guys. Kat, I think you were memfault. When you explained social capital in that discussion, I remember something just clicking in my head.

Although it did take several more months until I stopped spending it all in one place.

Not that this has anything to do with sockpuppetry, but

People don't lose anything by speaking their mind in a reasonable way, or disagreeing with the majority opinion. I don't think less of somebody because they have opinions about cheese which differ from my own.

This. I continue to be discomfited whenever anyone says they feel like they can't say what they think here. Saying what you think is not the same thing as being rude. Of course I bite my tongue sometimes, and sometimes don't feel like getting into something, but I never feel like I can't say what I think, UNLESS what I really think is, "Dude, you fucking suck, Just STFU already." Because that's unnecessarily rude and therefore inappropriate in a community I want to continue to be a part of.

This thoughtful discussion of social capital has opened a wound I thought was healed.

The last time I focused on the term was pretty much a year ago when its sharp end was pointed at me. In a kerfuffle over my many sins, including:

• being too helpful
• not framing a cut/paste post properly
• referencing a 'tell us about you' question with a link to my site (spamming, it was called)
• others I'm sure I perpetrated but weren't pointed out

Honestly, I didn't think I was any more or less anything than anyone else, but what I was was relatively new. And my social capital account didn't even qualify for free checking.

Even leaving to lick my wounds and then coming back for what I find wonderful about this place and skimming over the rest, I still feel like I have no capital...a year into it.

Every group has a hierarchy...that's just human, I think. And I'm okay with mine here...and grateful for a lesson mentioned up thread...

t watch me slide back on topic after a hopefully forgivable mememe

Just because there are in-jokes like sock puppets or long-shared experiences I can never be part of, I know the joke isn't necessarily ON me...and the things I have NOT shared, do not diminish what I can enjoy/contribute here.

While I don't love sock puppets just because I'm some times too dim to get the joke, I have not (so far) seen them used in malice.

In fact, I've never actually seen malice here. Rudeness? sure. Misplaced anger? you betcha. And maybe there actually have been 'bad' people participating, but boy, I haven't seen them.

With gobs and gobs of respect for everyone's feelings on the topic, it seems that what fear we give life and sock puppets don't feel to me to deserve fear or loathing. When there is so much ELSE in the world to bestow those gifts upon.

t /too many words