Monique "Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!" Aug 21, 2003 1:06:01 pm PDT

Edited to fix the link.

This is the explanation of why we are talking about getting rid of a thread. Also, there is a great freeway analogy that Kristen made which I can't find.

But if we leave every thread that has some posts open then we end up closing nothing. The idea is to clean up and consolidate. By all means, we can close the Minnear thread. I haven't proposed it because I don't see another thread that serves a similar function. I proposed the threads I have because those, to me, seem able to be consolidated or rolled in elsewhere. People disagree which is fine and Of The Good and it means that maybe there will be enough votes against closing Previously that it will stay open.

A conversation is much richer if it happens all in one place. A happy place where Americans and Unamericans can hold hands and sing the joys of their reruns. A conversation spread over six threads? NSM.

It has NEVER happened all in one place. NEVER. There are always discussions of old (seasons and seasons) old episodes in the show threads. Always. This 'all one place' claim is an illusion. It has always been spread. Previously was a great idea that sorta caught on, and since we can have these conversations in other safe places, it is an unnecessary one.

Cindy, I've read all your posts on this and I understand your point, but I respectfully disagree. To say that there are six threads to discuss Angel previouslies so let's get rid of one of them is unfair.

First of all the Angel thread is NAFDA discussion of all things Angel so it leaves out UnAmericans as well as people who are new to Angel and have decided to catch up in syndication before going into the Angel thread to discuss current episodes. That leaves us with five threads.

Wolfram, don't obfuscate. I have clearly stated the UnAm safe threads, time and time again and noted that there are 2-3 UnAm safe, with six possible (not all UnAm safe) overall.

Please. If you're going to argue with me, please be fair.

It is unsafe for UnAmericans in UnAmerican? Will it be unsafe for UnAmericans in the BtVS thread? Will Natter suddenly become unsafe?

Will it be unsafe for UnAmericans in the BtVS thread? Will Natter suddenly become unsafe?

Why would we talk about Angel episodes (not occasional crossovers, but Angel the entire Series except for this season) in Buffy? Why would we in Natter? Those aren't the places for for that conversation.

Why would we talk about Angel episodes (not occasional crossovers, but Angel the entire Series except for this season) in Buffy? Why would we in Natter? Those aren't the places for for that conversation.

Because there seems to be a great desire to talk all together (which is really nice, I don't mean that sarcastically) in a place that is safe for UnAmericans, and for some reason, everyone's eyes glaze over when I mention the UnAmerican thread, so I am pointing out two other threads that are also UnAm safe, where nobody would get stomped if they started talking about AYNoHYEB?

Honestly, I don't understand why it can't happen in UnAm. I understand UnAm is no longer merely a show thread, but it's one of it's purposes, and by definition, will be safe for everyone as long as "everyone" is defined as those who get episodes by the time Australia gets them.

This need to talk safely about old Angel can be fulfilled in threads other than Previously. In a time where we're trying to cut back, that we would rather repurpose previously to include "Angel" in it's definition, than cut it and use one of the other available threads says to me people aren't willing to cut back.

Honestly, I don't understand why it can't happen in UnAm.

Speaking only for myself, I would feel weird using the UnAm thread to talk about an episode that was aired in the USA the day before. Sure, the UnAms have seen it, and they could and probably would join in the discussion, but I'd still feel like I and my fellow Americans were hijacking the thread to suit our American needs.

First of all the Angel thread is NAFDA discussion of all things Angel so it leaves out UnAmericans as well as people who are new to Angel and have decided to catch up in syndication before going into the Angel thread to discuss current episodes. That leaves us with five threads.

Wolfram, don't obfuscate. I have clearly stated the UnAm safe threads, time and time again and noted that there are 2-3 UnAm safe, with six possible (not all UnAm safe) overall.

Cindy, I was not trying to obfuscate. I felt that if a thread is not UnAm safe, then it shouldn't be considered as one of 5 possible threads to replace Previously. And as I tried to lay out, none of those 5 threads is suitable to stand in as a replacement for the discussion and discussors of Previously.

Please. If you're going to argue with me, please be fair.

I only ask that you do the same. Don't accuse me of confusing an issue that I tried really hard to make clear.

Cindy, I was not trying to obfuscate. I felt that if a thread is not UnAm safe, then it shouldn't be considered as one of 5 possible threads to replace Previously. And as I tried to lay out, none of those 5 threads is suitable to stand in as a replacement for the discussion and discussors of Previously.

Wolfram, I not only stated there were six threads, I stated that 2 to 3 of the 6 were UnAm safe. In more than one of my posts, before you ever posted to me. I shouldn't have assumed the worst, and that was unfair, and for that I'm sorry.

Wolfram, I not only stated there were six threads, I stated that 2 to 3 of the 6 were UnAm safe. In more than one of my posts, before you ever posted to me. I shouldn't have assumed the worst, and that was unfair, and for that I'm sorry.

I'm sorry too. I saw the number 6 so often, that I didn't take the time to point out that you had already said some of them were only NAFDA. And FTR, I think you make a lot of good points, I just don't agree with all of them for the reasons I stated.

Speaking only for myself, I would feel weird using the UnAm thread to talk about an episode that was aired in the USA the day before. Sure, the UnAms have seen it, and they could and probably would join in the discussion, but I'd still feel like I and my fellow Americans were hijacking the thread to suit our American needs.

I'm with Jon on this. The UnAm thread really isn't a show thread. Yes, we could in theory discuss Angel reruns there, or in Natter, or in Buffy, but it would basically be destroying an established and old subcommunity for the sake of consolidation.

There are really only four non-show threads I think should be regarded as untouchable: Natter, Bitches, Atlantic Canadians, and UnAmericans. They all have established cultures.

Wolfram - to cite myself:

No I am saying there are still plenty of threads in which to discuss old episodes of Buffy and Angel, and at least one is UnAmerican safe for both shows. Buffy will lose its NAFDA standing, and be safe for everyone as well. There are places for everyone to get together without the risk of being spoiled.

Cindy "Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!" Aug 21, 2003 12:38:53 pm PDT

Previously does not fill any need that can't be filled in any number of other threads - even for old Angel episodes. Nothing precludes us from moving the talk to UnAmericans, to Natter or even to Buffy. That's why it is a redundancy. The "central meeting place" is habit, not need. There are now other meeting places and the only thing people need to make them "central" is to make it so.

Cindy "Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!" Aug 21, 2003 12:48:28 pm PDT

I keep seeing talk about this locking out the UnAms. What is stopping any of us from discussing anything not spoilery-to-UnAms in the UnAm thread?

Cindy "Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!" Aug 22, 2003 2:35:26 am PDT

In response to that, people are saying if we have no Previously, we have no where to discuss past Angel seasons with UnAms. I am saying we already have 6 threads in which Angel is fair game, and at least 2-3 are safe for UnAms, and so a Previously for Angel is unnecessary.

If we don't have a Previously thread of any kind and only have an Angel thread when Season 5 starts where are we going to talk about past seasons of Angel so that everyone on the board--Americans & UnAmericans--can discuss them?

UnAm

Natter

Buffy

all the above are UnAm safe.

Cindy "Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!" Aug 22, 2003 9:15:12 am PDT

Wolfram - you posted 4 posts after that last one, to say:

To say that there are six threads to discuss Angel previouslies so let's get rid of one of them is unfair.

Wolfram "Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!" Aug 22, 2003 9:58:41 am PDT

What I said actually, over and over again, is that there are 6 threads over all, to discuss Angel, and 2 to 3 of them are safe for UnAms as well as NAFDA types. I was objecting to the mischaracterization that I was saying UnAms could discuss in all 6 threads. I not only didn't say that, I pointed out which of the 6 were UnAm safe. And everyone reading these, uses this board and knows what is and isn't UnAm safe. I felt like you were implying I was pulling a fast one, when I've been quite specific about the number of threads safe for UnAm Angel conversation. It rankled. It felt dirty.

But I don't see why we're slashing any thread we can.

Go back. Read all the posts from Monique and Kristen for the past three or four days in this thread, Bureacracy and BBaBB. We are not panicking (we've been told not to). We've also been told to streamline. Frankly, I'm disgusted so many people are unwilling to do so.

eta...

Wolfram - this was cross-posted with your most recent post above.