Wolfram - to cite myself:

No I am saying there are still plenty of threads in which to discuss old episodes of Buffy and Angel, and at least one is UnAmerican safe for both shows. Buffy will lose its NAFDA standing, and be safe for everyone as well. There are places for everyone to get together without the risk of being spoiled.

Cindy "Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!" Aug 21, 2003 12:38:53 pm PDT

Previously does not fill any need that can't be filled in any number of other threads - even for old Angel episodes. Nothing precludes us from moving the talk to UnAmericans, to Natter or even to Buffy. That's why it is a redundancy. The "central meeting place" is habit, not need. There are now other meeting places and the only thing people need to make them "central" is to make it so.

Cindy "Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!" Aug 21, 2003 12:48:28 pm PDT

I keep seeing talk about this locking out the UnAms. What is stopping any of us from discussing anything not spoilery-to-UnAms in the UnAm thread?

Cindy "Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!" Aug 22, 2003 2:35:26 am PDT

In response to that, people are saying if we have no Previously, we have no where to discuss past Angel seasons with UnAms. I am saying we already have 6 threads in which Angel is fair game, and at least 2-3 are safe for UnAms, and so a Previously for Angel is unnecessary.

If we don't have a Previously thread of any kind and only have an Angel thread when Season 5 starts where are we going to talk about past seasons of Angel so that everyone on the board--Americans & UnAmericans--can discuss them?

UnAm

Natter

Buffy

all the above are UnAm safe.

Cindy "Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!" Aug 22, 2003 9:15:12 am PDT

Wolfram - you posted 4 posts after that last one, to say:

To say that there are six threads to discuss Angel previouslies so let's get rid of one of them is unfair.

Wolfram "Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!" Aug 22, 2003 9:58:41 am PDT

What I said actually, over and over again, is that there are 6 threads over all, to discuss Angel, and 2 to 3 of them are safe for UnAms as well as NAFDA types. I was objecting to the mischaracterization that I was saying UnAms could discuss in all 6 threads. I not only didn't say that, I pointed out which of the 6 were UnAm safe. And everyone reading these, uses this board and knows what is and isn't UnAm safe. I felt like you were implying I was pulling a fast one, when I've been quite specific about the number of threads safe for UnAm Angel conversation. It rankled. It felt dirty.

But I don't see why we're slashing any thread we can.

Go back. Read all the posts from Monique and Kristen for the past three or four days in this thread, Bureacracy and BBaBB. We are not panicking (we've been told not to). We've also been told to streamline. Frankly, I'm disgusted so many people are unwilling to do so.

eta...

Wolfram - this was cross-posted with your most recent post above.

There are really only four non-show threads I think should be regarded as untouchable: Natter, Bitches, Atlantic Canadians, and UnAmericans. They all have established cultures.

I agree with this.

The UnAm thread really isn't a show thread. Yes, we could in theory discuss Angel reruns there, or in Natter, or in Buffy, but it would basically be destroying an established and old subcommunity for the sake of consolidation.

I completely agree it is an old and well established subcommunity. I'm not trying to take away from that. It's partly a show thread, in that the description on the first thread page reads:

Discussion of episodes currently airing in Un-American locations (anything that's aired in Australia is fair game), as well as anything else the Un-Americans feel like talking about or we feel like asking them. Please use the show discussion threads for any current-season discussion.

So, while I agree, the thread wasn't developed for the purpose of NAFDAs running in to talk about syndicated re-runs, when people say to me that there's no place where we can talk to the UnAms where they'll be safe, I have to disagree. That's one of the stated purposes of UnAms.

And? If the UnAms (and they very well may not) don't want the discussion of the syndicated reruns in the UnAm thread, is there really enough UnAm interest in the discussion of the syndicated reruns, to keep "Previously" open for the stated purpose of having the discussion UnAm safe?

And? If the UnAms (and they very well may not) don't want the discussion of the syndicated reruns in the UnAm thread, is there really enough UnAm interest in the discussion of the syndicated reruns, to keep "Previously" open for the stated purpose of having the discussion UnAm safe?

I don't agree with the notion that the only reason to keep Previously open is for UnAm safe discussion. That's a benefit, but not the main reason it's nice to have. Also, as the UnAms aren't getting our syndicated reruns, I wouldn't want to have it as the place to discuss those reruns.

I am willing to consolidate. However, what makes the most sense to me is getting rid of quotables (three threads), keeping Buffy and Previously, but adding Angel to the previously thread's description (no gain), closing at least Buffy Spoilage lite (one thread), combining PPO and BF (one thread), and striking Corp and Anthology (two threads). Which is a total of seven threads trimmed.

Okay, not to be the big gray cloud of doom and not to board mom you, but is it possible to just take a breath for a moment. Cindy, it's clear to me you have argued very strongly for one perspective. Wolfram and others have also argues very strongly for a differing perspective.

I'm not sure that either side is convincing the other to reconsider. And honestly, as a somewhat outside observer, I'm not being swayed in one direction or another.

Edited for spelling and to say that Plei and I are of similar minds. I think that the consolidations she mentions (except for Previously where I waffle) are ones that feel like we can live with.

Plei, can you please help me remember. . . Keep Bitchy Fic opened but possibly renamed and close PPO and Anthology. Did I get that correct?

I'm not sure that either side is convincing the other to reconsider. And honestly, as a somewhat outside observer, I'm not being swayed in one direction or another.

You sure have a purty way of saying, "Have some chocolate."

Close Buffista Corp was also in Plei's proposal.

And the closed threads are going to move off the server, is that right?

And the closed threads are going to move off the server, is that right?

Once DXM works his magic, yes, I believe so.

t edit Actually, not off server, but off the database.

Plei, can you please help me remember. . . Keep Bitchy Fic opened but possibly renamed and close PPO and Anthology. Did I get that correct?

Keep the Bitchy Fic thread open (maybe rename it Buffista Fic or something) and close PPO and Anthology, yes. PPO fic might as well go in BF, as BF has expanded to where it's no longer just Spike, and no longer just Buffyverse.

I was objecting to the mischaracterization that I was saying UnAms could discuss in all 6 threads.

Read my post again. I never said that you said UnAms could discuss in all 6 threads.

You keep saying UnAms can discuss in 3 threads: Buffy, Natter, UnAm. I feel Buffy should remain essentially Buffy; Natter is for nattering and by definiton Angel talk is not Natter - it's on topic; and UnAms is a subcommunity of it's own. And you leave out NorthAms who are seeing the syndicated episodes for the first time. Should they go to UnAm? Buffy? Natter? Angel? Bitches? None of those places seem right to me.

X-posted with a lot of recent stuff. Taking a breath and going to find some chocolate. (And for all the numbersluts - Pffffffttttt.)

I never said that you said UnAms could discuss in all 6 threads.

No, you didn't. But I'm unsure of the implications of these statements of yours:

I felt that if a thread is not UnAm safe, then it shouldn't be considered as one of 5 possible threads to replace Previously.

and

To say that there are six threads to discuss Angel previouslies so let's get rid of one of them is unfair.

- if that isn't a reasonable conclusion for me to be drawing. I'd thought we'd already cleared that up though, until I came back and read your post.

Now I don't know what to think and don't really want to. Can we drop that part of the conversation, and just talk about why we do or don't think the thread is close-able?

...

Point by point, you said:

I feel Buffy should remain essentially Buffy;

I too, feel Buffy should remain essentially Buffy.

Natter is for nattering and by definiton Angel talk is not Natter - it's on topic;

Lots of TV shows are relegated to Natter. Angel and Buffy both come up in Natter from time to time. If we don't tighten our belt, there may be no more board for either natter or topic.

and UnAms is a subcommunity of it's own.

I agree. UnAms is a subcommunity of its own, that was created to give UnAm Buffistas a place safe from NAFDA spoilers. And if people arguing in favor of keeping Previously and repurposing it as a Previously on Angel thread, because the UnAms need a safe-for-UnAms conversation venue, then I'm going to point out the ones that already exist.

And you leave out NorthAms who are seeing the syndicated episodes for the first time. Should they go to UnAm? Buffy? Natter? Angel? Bitches? None of those places seem right to me.

NAFDA posters can post about Angel in more threads than anyone else. They can go to UnAm, but they don't have to. They can post in Angel. They can post in Atlantic Canadians and Bitches as well. We've always ALSO talked about old episodes in the main show threads. It's not as if NAFDA was always only current season, with no mention of seasons past. The topic is allowable in the other threads you mention too, because (aside from spoiler rules) we don't restrict topic.

Regardless, I'm not trying to assign anyone to any of those threads, or recommend one over the other. I am only pointing out other possible venues for the discussion of Angel reruns, and began doing so, when people were defending "Previously" as if there were no other venue to talk about Angel reruns, either with or without UnAm Buffistas in the mix.

I am saying that "Previously" is far from the only place where we can (do, and have) talk(ed) about Angel, whether or not we're Ams or Uns or a mixed group. There are even places we can talk together, all we have to do is the getting together part, and that doesn't need to be legislated, it can just happen naturally.

Many discussions are expected to share space. More will after this ballot is decided.

Is it (Previously) a nice luxury to have? Absolutely! It's not like I hate the Previously thread. But when...

• we can't open any new threads
  
• we're talking about cutting all sorts of threads
  
• we're breaking the terms of our agreement with our host and could be bounced
  
• we're having our techies spend time scanning code for connections that aren't closing

...well then, keeping a unique thread for a discussion that can (and to some extent has) happened in other threads that aren't on the chopping block, and won't be - keeping Previously and repurposing it for Angel reruns is an extravagance that I think we can do without. You think it is not.

I don't agree with the notion that the only reason to keep Previously open is for UnAm safe discussion. That's a benefit, but not the main reason it's nice to have.

Plei, I harped on it, because it's the one people kept bringing up in defense of "Previously". All the stuff we're talking about cutting is nice to have, and some threads (Angel Spoilers Lite comes to mind - even though I recommended we dump it, too) seem to me to serve a much more unique purpose than does the "Previously" thread. Even when BtVS was an active show, the FX BtVS rerun discussion wasn't confined to "Previously".