I'd strongly prefer not to have the syndicated Angel eps discussion in the main Angel thread. I don't think it'll do either conversation justice, and it will lock out the UnAms. One of the most enjoyable things about the original Prev thread when Buffy was first syndicated was getting to hash out the eps with people we never got to talk with in NAFDA. So I'd prefer to keep the Previously thread if at all possible.

I keep seeing talk about this locking out the UnAms. What is stopping any of us from discussing anything not spoilery-to-UnAms in the UnAm thread?

That said, I liked the earlier suggestion of moving the Angel Previously discussion into the Buffy thread if it were slightly revamped. That's something I'd like to hear more opinions on.

I think we're getting over legislate-y again. If we remove "Previously" entirely, the "where" we discuss syndicated Angel is up to us, and needn't be legislated, because we never get stompy about off-topic-topic in the show threads, as long as the off-topic-topic doesn't violate spoiler rules.

This kind of issue - "where to talk about safe Angel episodes" is something that doesn't need voting. Consensus was made for that kind of issue. There was plenty of talking about old Buffy episodes in the Buffy NAFDA thread, even when we had new Buffy episodes to discuss. We didn't legislate that.

By the way, good point about the Fic thread. If it doesn't have fic, and is work friendly, it shouldn't be consolidated with the fic workshop threads.

Nou - just to be extra-pointy, it's not going to be. Kat left the workshopping thread out of the consolidation.

Kat, Jon, Wolfram - aren't we getting way overboard with the NP in this case? Doesn't leaving an item blank on a ballot you cast, count as a 'no preference'? Do we need a 'no preference' option?

Wasn't 'no preference' for the case of a one-item ballot, where you wanted to make sure the issue got decided one way or another, but didn't want to enter an opinion? Seems like we're going to make things difficult for the counter. If DX gets a ballot with "yes" votes on each evenly numbered item, and no votes at all on each odd numbered item, don't the no votes count as no preference? I think we're making this harder than it has to be.

Am following this with interest, but the only thing I have to add is thanks to Monique and Kristen for their patience and their constructive suggestions.

We'll sort this out. With some grumpiness, undoubtedly, and some feeling of disatisfaction at having to tighten belts, but I think it's all do-able.

Kat, Jon, Wolfram - aren't we getting way overboard with the NP in this case? Doesn't leaving an item blank on a ballot you cast, count as a 'no preference'?

No, leaving an item blank does not count as a "no preference." Leaving it blank doesn't count towards the MVT; a vote of NP does count towards the MVT.

Wasn't 'no preference' for the case of a one-item ballot, where you wanted to make sure the issue got decided one way or another, but didn't want to enter an opinion?

Actually, the value of "no preference" increases in a multi-item ballot, since each item's votes are tallied separately to determine whether the MVT has been reached for that item.

I keep seeing talk about this locking out the UnAms. What is stopping any of us from discussing anything not spoilery-to-UnAms in the UnAm thread?

Here's the scenario: An old episode of Angel airs on TNT. An American wants to talk about it. S/he goes into the Angel thread to post comments. Unamericans don't get to join in. Unless all the old-Angel-ep talk initiates in UnAm, it will lock them out. And I doubt that Americans will think to do that.

I'm going to go out on a limb and argue that keeping the Previously thread could actually remove redundant posts. If we remove Previously, discussion of old Angels will happen in two places -- Angel and Unamericans. Keep it, and the discussion will be focused to that one thread.

Cindy-- Jon is right about how no preference works. This is why I voted against no preference....

Seriously-- I think we should explain the difference between no pref and no vote at the top of the ballot. It is very confusing.

Okay. I suspect I had major disagreements with minimum vote totals as a whole, so I'm probably transferring that disagreement to these posts. Carry on Jon, and thanks.

(We got way too detailed when we did this stuff.)

eta...

But not about the Previously stuff. That can be decided by habit and word of mouth. We can mention in NAFDA Angel, "Hey, there's a great discussion of AYNoHYEB in UnAm right now, AIFG!"

It's just silly to have so many threads where you can discuss old Angel, and hang onto one of them when you're trying to clean house.

Sorry to cereal in these times, but I didn't want Jon to not see this if I added it to the old one, in edit.

Why I think Previously can be cut with minimum pain...

On May 22, 2003, the first post of the day was post number 3498 (by Sophia - hi Sophia!). Fastforward a quarter of a year to yesterday (when the last post was made, by Matt - and hi Matt), and you'll see it is number 3752.

(Okay, now it's Theodosia and number 3753, but the stats aren't really affected.)

A grand total of 254 posts have been made in 3 months (92? days). That rate isn't 3 posts per day. FX airs BtVS in syndication how many times a day? Plus, FOX airs it on weekends? And we don't think this thread is superfluous?

Even if you figure, "It's summer and the board is slower," we have to remember this is the first and only Previously thread since we opened this board last September. There have been 3752 posts in 11 months. What's that come out to - 10 or 11 posts a day?

I'm not saying Previously serves no purpose. I am saying the purpose it serves is small, and specialized in theory, and not used to anything approaching full potential in practice. That's exactly the kind of thread you get rid of when you're housecleaning, especially when (more than one - in fact 6) other threads exist, where the purpose is also allowed to be served. All it takes is a change of habit to do so, and to tell you the truth, it doesn't look like many of us have been slaves to the Previously habit for quite some time.

Yes, but you're not really comparing apples to apples on posting volume. The original Previously thread started on WX the same day as syndication. There were 1079 posts during the first two weeks of syndication, and about 3900 in the first three months. Remember that a large number of people haven't seen the older episodes of Angel in awhile, and will probably want to talk about them when syndication starts. We're not talking about episodes of Buffy that have by now been rerun twenty or thirty times, but Angel episodes that were only been rerun once or twice several years ago.

Remember that a large number of people haven't seen the older episodes of Angel in awhile, and will probably want to talk about them when syndication starts.

Or for Season 1, purchased, watched and dissected when the DVD came out. But the point stands for the later seasons.

Yes, but you're not really comparing apples to apples on posting volume. The original Previously thread started on WX the same day as syndication.

I'm not sure you're comparing apples to apples though, either. Certainly, there are people who haven't seen all Angel episodes and will want to do some catching up, but not at the levels of catching up that was needed for Buffy.

Remember that a large number of people haven't seen the older episodes of Angel in awhile, and will probably want to talk about them when syndication starts.

Your "awhile" is key here. Part of the reason the Buffy syndicated reruns made such a splash is that lot more of the fandom missed out on early seasons of Buffy - because it was new and unique. It wasn't just a matter of not seeing the episodes enough times to feel sated. People hadn't seen two to three (+) years worth of episodes at all. Hell, Angel already has DVDs on the US market. That didn't happen in the US for Buffy until after season 5. Look at the Buffy thread this week. Look at how many conversion stories start in seasons 3 and 4.

Those Buff early-adopters who didn't miss out, were still new fans in a new fandom, and some hadn't been enraptured by a cult TV show before, didn't think - right away at least - to tape Buffy episodes. As is the nature of a spin-off, more people knew about Angel from the buzz it got from Buffy. There's a huge overlap between Buffy and Angel fans. There are some fans who only watch Angel, but even some of those were originally Buffy fans who turned off Buffy for whatever reason. Many/most Angel fans knew about Angel from the get-go, because they watched Buffy and knew of the spin-off. Most Buffy-watching Angel viewers knew enough to give it a chance and watch. Most Buffy-taping Angel viewers knew they were probably going to want to tape it from the start. Angel starts out with fewer people needing to catch up. No. I don't have actual proof of this. But the WB doesn't just not rerun Angel episodes because the WB sucks (which is actually not in dispute :).

There were 1079 posts during the first two weeks of syndication, and about 3900 in the first three months.

Regardless, the UnAm, Angel, and Buffy threads are all moderate volume (in comparison to the slow threads, and in comparison to the crack demon threads of Natter and Bitches - may they live and reign forever and ever). It's not as if these threads are going to go faster than any Buffista thread has ever gone before, because Angel is in reruns. Angel will be in syndication for what - five or six weeks before season 5 premieres in the US? It'll be in syndication for months and months, before season 5 premieres in Australia. There's that 1079, right there, and then some. Your stats make me think not that the thread is needed, but that we thought it would be needed, gave it a shot, but it only served a temporary purpose.

I've yet to see a specific need that Previously fills that isn't already filled in other existing threads. It's niche posting in a time we've been advised to streamline, for a show that has a total of 6 forums clearly open to it, and for a group of episodes safe to openly discuss in any thread on this board, save Press and Beep Me.

It's bad to panic, Dana. Thespis can smell fear.

Yay! That was my tagline on Table Talk for quite a while, and I think it's the one I left up for posterity. Thespis is one of my favorite episodes ever.