Can I be confident in extrapolating that not only is the definition of spoiler an issue here, but how far this will extend? That Trudy, for instance, won't be comfortable in Bitchy Fic or Bitches under the new definition?

Yes.

If people are discussing non-broadcasted content in Bitches I don't know that I would hang out there.

Here is our policy as-is:

Q. What do you guys consider a spoiler?

A. Anything that hasn't been broadcast. So anything from the show and the preview trailers is okay, anything from TV Guide or anywhere else is a spoiler, including casting news, episode titles and plot twists. No white fonting. Spoilers should only be posted in the spoiler thread.

What, specifically, is objectionable to various people?

Since the rule has stood since early Table Talk, I think declaring it the bullshit consensus law is inaccurate.

All laws before voting are "bullshit consensus" laws, though, aren't they? It's just the definition I've been using for "bullshit consensus" -- which isn't functioning as a judgment on said rules, just a marker in time.

I'm all for letting the vote decide after hearing viewpoints

Kind of where I'm at. I'll note that I got off the main threads and put most of my show-response writing in Spoilers because I got tired of keeping track of the spoiler-line. I wanted to talk about events on both shows and that became impossible. I wanted to speculate about the new season with cast changes and that became impossible. So, I've already left the show threads to accomodate a heightened spoiler sensitivity which has not always been the defining standard on our boards.

It's too constricting as it is now. My opinion. I'll be voting to ease it up because I'd rather be able to discuss Angel on the Angel thread. If the current proposal gets shot down I'll just stick to the Spoiler thread.

David, let's eliminate "drift".

What do you object to in the rule as it is now worded?

OK - this can't help but be unpleasant, but which law? If it's the Phoenix FAQ, or other board law, from what I saw (and I lurked a LONG time before I posted) then that was the bullshit consensus law. Which is WHAT THIS VOTE IS TRYING TO CHANGE.

Actually Ken, you bring up an interesting point. To wit:

Result: 84% of those voters with a preference have decided that

Pre-vote decisions are NOT open for discussion and change until September 20, 2003.

ETA - That said, I do think it's worthwhile hammering out some of the points of agreement and finding out where we really are. But this has gone beyond unpleasant - there has got to be a better way.

Sadly, I don't agree, and I find it both upsetting and mystifying.

It's very upsetting to me, too, brenda.

Well, let's be diligent about drift and, per the will-o-the people, adhere to the rule as it now stands until September 20.

What do you object to in the rule as it is now worded?

There's a difference between the wording of the spoiler policy and the history of its enforcement. The current situation is sort of like a crackown on pot-smoking laws. The laws have always been on the books, but there's been more latitude in the past. There's been an insistence on the letter of the law and it's stifled things. That's just my opinion. But even in legal decisions, past precedent counts. And it's not superfluous to note that historically we've discussed cast changes during the summer.

My only standard really on this is that I think the current situation stifles discussion. What the hell are people supposed to talk about on the Angel thread during the summer anyway if they can't discuss possible storylines for the next year? The post-mortem has already happened, and the show is clearly going in a new direction. I want to talk about that direction in the show thread.

OK, I was about to do a huge spout on the word "drift", except, of course, it's nowhere in Hec's post.

IOW - WHAT HEC SAID!