'Objects In Space'
We open it up, we talks the talk, we votes, we shuts it down. This thread is to free up Bureaucracy for daily details as we hammer out the Big Issues towards a vote. Open only when a proposal has been made and seconded according to Buffista policy (Which we voted on!). If this thread is closed, hie thee to Bureaucracy instead!
Basically the new policy would say that stuff that will be known anyway for the overwhelming majority of people (like 95%) before the show airs can be discussed.
And I've stated, repeatedly, that if this really is common knowledge the issue is moot. It's not a spoiler.
But how can we know when the issue really is known by 'everyone'. Because that is not an assumption that can be made. Not at all.
ita - the reason we want to discuss stuff that (for most of us) is not a spoiler is that it intergrates with the other discussion. For example, if there was a NAFTA 24 thread on the board, and it was widely known that Depp was joining the cast, then it would be very frustrating to discuss what next seasons 24 was going to be like without mentioning this. And the vast majority of people, including otherwise unspoiled people, would not be able to take part in Depp discussions, because they would not want to converse in the hard core spoiler thread, and might not want to take part in spoilers light thread, because they would not want to hear other spoiling casters that were not new permanent additions to the show.
This. Exactly.
To me, knowing who is and isn't in the main credits of a show months before a new season premieres is just a fact of television life. People who leave have new projects they want to publicize. When someone new comes aboard, if the actor or character is prominent enough to draw new viewers, the network and creative team have a vested interest in promoting them. It's a fact of the genre. Calling it a spoiler, TO ME, is like calling it a spoiler that in a mystery, the detective will solve the murder, or in a romance, a couple will pair off happily. Because the TV industry works in such a way that casting information is well-publicized, the writers know they'll have to get rid of or introduce characters in such a way that the HSQ comes from the What, When, Where, Why, and How, rather than the Who.
But in both cases, just because we decided to discuss them doesn't mean they weren't actually spoilers by our own stated definition. People just didn't object because the one was so extreme and the other comparatively minor.
Thank you, brenda. That is how I saw the events after season 5. We circumvented our own rules, but that didn't mean that we eliminated them for future events.
The concept of the "anti-spoiler" did not exist until this past May, apparently created out of thin air during the incident that Cindy mentioned. The policy of white-fonting BtVS stuff in the AtS thread, and vice versa, was likewise created out of thin air after the creation of the Firefly thread, with no discussion.
I thought there was some discussion about it, and then a false consensus formed and the new policy was implemented. I think it was this type of resolution that led to the formal voting policy discussion, and the codifying of the rules.
[Edit - mega, delayed X-post.]
What do you propose?I have nothing to propose right now. I just wanted to point out that yesterday we seemed to be making progress and communicating really well, today we have two sides getting frustrated and screaming that the other side feels their position trumps the other position.
It's bothersome because we were making progress, and now we're not.
Funny, 'cause it feels a lot like that on this side, too. And please don't take that as a slam, when it really is not meant that way. But we're not finding much middle ground here, are we?
I didn't take it as a slam, Brenda. But no, it doesn't feel like we're finding much middle ground today.
I've not seen one of them anywhere but here. Honestly.
So my question becomes: whose reality is more valid? Because that's pretty much what we're talking about now.
Does your virginness trump my knowledge? Does my knowledge trump your virginness?
How do we decide? The group that there's more of? The group that will get the most upset?
I guess I just feel like we're descending into Whoever Complains the Most Gets Their Way, and I don't want to see either side go through that.
Can you"virgins" please take a moment to try to understand why we do want to talk about it in the show threads.
I would love to - please go ahead and explain it to me.
Okay - It's old news to us. We would like to talk about it.
And, I don't think I can repeat this enough. I do not consider myself a spoiler ho, I don't want to know spoilers, but I don't consider casting news of this type a spoiler, so I'd like to discuss it somewhere that's not a spoiler thread.
I'm definitely devil's advocating here -- at this rate, I probably won't even vote.
But both sides are convinced, it seems, that their way of life is not being empathised with. If you are comfortable saying "You -- you -- and you -- stay out of the Angel thread (and maybe all the NAFDA threads) until October 8th." to the virgins then, I guess, you'll vote yes.
Because it looks like this is what it's going to boil down to, doesn't it?
Am I right in thinking that part of the problem is that 'spoiled' and 'unspoiled' are not simple states but merely opposite ends of a continum, and that providing threads for everyone would require an infinate number of threads?
whose reality is more valid?
Ick. No one's. Whose will be accomodated -- that's a whole nother kettle of fish.
I guess I just feel like we're descending into Whoever Complains the Most Gets Their Way, and I don't want to see either side go through that.
And I think there may be a perception that this was how the current spoiler consensus was reached in the first place on the spoiled side.
I think however this resolves, even if it doesn't come to a vote, that somebody is going to be unhappy. However, I think it should come to a vote just to get this issue resolved one way or t'other. And, no, I don't think it was resolved when the current spoiler consensus was implemented.
Calling it a spoiler, TO ME, is like calling it a spoiler that in a mystery, the detective will solve the murder, or in a romance, a couple will pair off happily.
Yes! This!
This is how much of a non-issue I think main cast casting news is. Susan nailed it exactly.
Elena, does that maybe help you understand why some of us are frustrated at the thought of having to go into Spoilers or Spoilers light to discuss something that, TO US (admittedly) seems like having to go into one of those threads to say that "A:tS is a show about a broody vampire."
Okay - It's old news to us. We would like to talk about it.
Please do not take this in anyway as a slam, because it's not. It's a valid question that I'd love to hear your answer on... What about those for whom it is news? Where do they go to talk about the show and still avoid the news?
So my question becomes: whose reality is more valid? Because that's pretty much what we're talking about now.
Everyone's reality is valid. I don't see how that's the question we're trying to answer.
Does your virginness trump my knowledge? Does my knowledge trump your virginness?
Respect for each other's views trumps everything. It always has.
How do we decide? The group that there's more of? The group that will get the most upset?
We've traditionally erred on the side of caution, because once you are spoiled you can't get unspoiled.
I realise you don't think these are spoilers. I'll tell you right now that I certainly do, and was most distressed to be spoiled.